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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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 Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:18 am Post subject: all job offers identical, are they crazy or just amateurs? |
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Another post made me think back to my recruitment from overseas. The biggest problem was every offer was identical, and yet they all kept pressing me for a "yes" answer. I told all of them, listen, I got five identical job offers in 24 hours, you've got to give me something to base a decision on, throw in something extra. Well I got called names, and one school rescinded the offer because i was a "haggler" and they wanted somebody who was "serious about teaching". But the others kept saying "oh our school is very nice" and "our apartment is very nice" and demanding an answer.
They were so unwilling to negotiate that if one had offered me a free used bicycle or a free coffeemaker, that would have swung my decision. But they didn't budge, and I ended up picking one almost randomly. What's wrong with these people? I'm definitely going to have to take a hand in the recruitment process for my successor. Heck, if the schools didn't offer anything the recruiter should have offered me something paid for with his fee. It would've been a small price to pay for a guaranteed commission. |
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ulsanchris
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Location: take a wild guess
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:25 am Post subject: |
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| there are many fish in the sea and the recruiters aren't picky about what kind of fish they catch. its why they all use the same crappy bait. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| you've got to give me something to base a decision on, |
They wanted you to get used to making major life decisions while lacking key information. It's how things are done here. |
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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| you've got to give me something to base a decision on, |
They wanted you to get used to making major life decisions while lacking key information. It's how things are done here. |
Yeah but they shot themselves in the foot. (All except the one I randomly chose.) For a few manwon any of the schools could have put "free bike!" in their ad and guaranteed to rise to the top of the competition. |
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flint
Joined: 11 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:03 am Post subject: |
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I don't know how it is in other cities, but I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't the same as in Cheongju.
In Cheongju most of the hogwon owners have gotten together to form an association. They meet at least once a month to try to set the same "standards" for their schools. One new "standard" is to set vacation time at 3 days twice a year, around a weekend. From what I heard before I left another is to set their income tax rate at 5% for all schools, even though it is only supposed to be 3.3% according to the Tax Office. All of their contracts are supposed to be the same now too. |
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bosintang
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: In the pot with the rest of the mutts
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| flint wrote: |
I don't know how it is in other cities, but I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't the same as in Cheongju.
In Cheongju most of the hogwon owners have gotten together to form an association. They meet at least once a month to try to set the same "standards" for their schools. One new "standard" is to set vacation time at 3 days twice a year, around a weekend. From what I heard before I left another is to set their income tax rate at 5% for all schools, even though it is only supposed to be 3.3% according to the Tax Office. All of their contracts are supposed to be the same now too. |
I think this the line of thinking too. If they throw in a free bike, every other business will be throwing in a free bike as well. Better to maintain the status quo. It's oligarchal thinking in a near-perfect competition environment. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| If they throw in a free bike, every other business will be throwing in a free bike as well. |
This is an interesting choice of examples because it is historically very controversial. The large newspapers do (or did) offer free bikes to new subscribers. Outraged, the smaller newspapers complained about unfair business tactics. The Uri Party sympathized with the small newspapers and talked about outlawing the practice, but I don't know if the bill was ever passed. I know they passed a bill limiting the percentage of market a newspaper can have. |
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jazblanc77
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| flint wrote: |
I don't know how it is in other cities, but I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't the same as in Cheongju.
In Cheongju most of the hogwon owners have gotten together to form an association. They meet at least once a month to try to set the same "standards" for their schools. One new "standard" is to set vacation time at 3 days twice a year, around a weekend. From what I heard before I left another is to set their income tax rate at 5% for all schools, even though it is only supposed to be 3.3% according to the Tax Office. All of their contracts are supposed to be the same now too. |
Yes, this happens in lots of the small communities. They Try to use their own criteria for arguing all contract disputes in the local area hogwans. I worked in a small town for 3.5 years and the "oh, let me talk to the other hogwans and see what they are doing about this issue," got real old real quickly. I wasn't a newbie and I couldn't care less what another school was doing since I already knew that it was wrong. Rule number one in the haggie business, your boss is empowered to screw you over by YOUR ignorance of the REAL rules, laws, and regulations so, get informed and be careful. |
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flint
Joined: 11 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| jazblanc77 wrote: |
Yes, this happens in lots of the small communities. They Try to use their own criteria for arguing all contract disputes in the local area hogwans. I worked in a small town for 3.5 years and the "oh, let me talk to the other hogwans and see what they are doing about this issue," got real old real quickly. I wasn't a newbie and I couldn't care less what another school was doing since I already knew that it was wrong. Rule number one in the haggie business, your boss is empowered to screw you over by YOUR ignorance of the REAL rules, laws, and regulations so, get informed and be careful. |
That is too true. I can remember the Director's husband at Ivy School going on and on about that when we would bring up our vacation time. He would never give it far in advance, usually within 2-3 weeks which left us scrambling. He would always use the excuse of talking to other hogwons. Or the best one, he would blame the school above us, Kids Herald, for lowering the amount of vacation days every year.
What I found kind of amusing is that he never thought we would actually talk to the foreign teachers at Kids Herald. We did, they told us the truth about their vacation time and when it started.
I'm glad I am out of there now.
You have to remember that no matter how nice your Director might seem they can turn on you at the drop of a hat. They aren't in it for you, they are in it for money. You have to find out exactly what your rights and benefits are and don't let some tin pot dictator of a director take them away from you. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I think it wouldn't have taken much. Not even a free bike offer. If each school sent you some photos of the apartment, you'd probably choose the one with the nicest looking apartment. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| If they throw in a free bike, every other business will be throwing in a free bike as well. |
This is an interesting choice of examples because it is historically very controversial. The large newspapers do (or did) offer free bikes to new subscribers. Outraged, the smaller newspapers complained about unfair business tactics. The Uri Party sympathized with the small newspapers and talked about outlawing the practice, but I don't know if the bill was ever passed. I know they passed a bill limiting the percentage of market a newspaper can have. |
In America there was a court battle that went all the way to the supreme court regarding newspapers having joint operating agreements (JOAs). Many major cities in America would be single newspaper towns if it weren't for JOAs. A JOA allows two different newspapers to share cost centers like printing and ad revenue, while maintaining independent editorial staffs. This, on the face of it, was a violation of anti-trust regulations. The supreme court eventually ruled that freedom of the press outweighed business regulation. In other words, a city with two newspapers with independent editorial views is healthier for democracy than a one paper town.
And if you don't think media in any Western nation isn't regulated to the hilt, you've not been paying much attention.
All in all, a city or country with a lot of newspapers is healthy for democracy. However in a nation where 2 chaebols with deep pockets could all start their own paper, give it away for free, and run smaller independent voices out of business, you would quickly enter into a newspaper war and then good bye smaller papers. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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All in all, a city or country with a lot of newspapers is healthy for democracy. However in a nation where 2 chaebols with deep pockets could all start their own paper, give it away for free, and run smaller independent voices out of business, you would quickly enter into a newspaper war and then good bye smaller papers.
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My purpose in using the newspaper example was to demonstrate that there is considerable feeling in Korea against competitive business practices such as offering a 'bike' to attract a teacher. The rich should not have an advantage by offering more. You can see it as well in the economic nationalism at play here. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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All in all, a city or country with a lot of newspapers is healthy for democracy. However in a nation where 2 chaebols with deep pockets could all start their own paper, give it away for free, and run smaller independent voices out of business, you would quickly enter into a newspaper war and then good bye smaller papers.
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My purpose in using the newspaper example was to demonstrate that there is considerable feeling in Korea against competitive business practices such as offering a 'bike' to attract a teacher. The rich should not have an advantage by offering more. You can see it as well in the economic nationalism at play here. |
Korean newspapers (at least the biggies) have, I believe, come to some "agreement" to not offer promos of that sort anymore, and I know the free-bike deals are a thing of the past.
Other instances include the law that was passed (then massively flouted and perhaps now rescinded) banning supermarkets from offering free delivery service. Another, the on again/off again bans on department stores laying on free bus service for their customers. Two services that constituted genuine quality-of-life benefits for Koreans, both of them dashed against the jagged rockface of radical egalitarianism. If one runner in the race suffers a broken leg, well then hell, let's break everyone's leg!
Regarding the OP: Wow, just when things couldn't get any worse -- hagwon/school cartels to engage in a salary/vacation/perks "race to the bottom". |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
Other instances include the law that was passed (then massively flouted and perhaps now rescinded) banning supermarkets from offering free delivery service. |
That reminds me of the French. I guess they were worried about Wal-mart so they wanted to ban the construction of supermarkets over a certain size. They didn't want to lose the image of the guy walking from market stall to market stall in a beret and a loaf of french bread under his arm... |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:54 am Post subject: |
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and a loaf of french bread under his arm...
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That image always disturbed me. Knowing the aversion to bathing, I figured the bread got home with a sweat stain. |
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