Korean Job Discussion Forums

joe_doufu · Joined: 09 May 2005 Location: Elsewhere

I have this one kid who's destined to be a classic angry mob ringleader ajosshi. He's the smartest kid in class but so defiant, he's basically announced that he hates foreigners and considers me beneath him, and he's recruited all the other students in the class to his cause. Most of the others were sweet and respectful before. Now when I come into the room they feign revulsion. They have told me flat out that they hate me and I can't be their friend.

The ringleader kid really went too far across the line today though. I handed him the chalk for a round of "hangman" and he decided he'd pick it up with a tissue so as not to touch the chalk I'd touched. Well I made him give up his turn at the game, and he didn't like that... he put up a tantrum and tried to punch me. I ordered him to leave the room, which is the ultimate punishment in my nonviolent repertoire, but he said "no" and "you can't make me" so I called in the principal.

To my dismay (because I've worked well with her before) the principal didn't back me up, instead tried to play judge, listen to both sides, mediate, etc. WTF? I, the teacher, ordered the kid out of the room, and he refused to go. Why I ordered it wasn't the issue. I asked her to back up my authority, and instead she undermined it. I walked out instead of the kid, and the little brat won.

So here's the question: What can I do to regain authority over this class? I can't beat the kids, though I'd pretty well like to. I can't make them leave the room because they'll just say "no" and I'm not ready to physically grapple with them. I need a plan by Friday.

PS: They are fifth grade, roughly age 12 I think.

Ilsanman · Joined: 15 Aug 2003 Location: Bucheon, Korea

Call his parents and tell them. They will do the beating.

If that doesn't work, do a sitdown strike and refuse to teach that class anymore.

joe_doufu · Joined: 09 May 2005 Location: Elsewhere

Interesting ideas but I'm afraid (1) the parents might agree with him that foreigners are beneath him and (2) if I cost the hagwon a student it might hurt my relationship with work.

After my initial post, I thought maybe what I should do is get to class ten minutes early and stack up all the chairs in the front of the room, so I decide who can sit.

Dan The Chainsawman · Joined: 05 May 2005

next time grab the kid up and put him outside with your hands. Don't need to beat him, but teach him the difference between a man and a boy. Then proceed to lay into the class, and really let them know that their buddy has gotten them into all this trouble.

Every time he pops off bust the whole class, and keep doing. Sooner or later funky boy will get the point, or just leave.

zappadelta · Joined: 31 Aug 2004

You have a principal at your hagwon?

bundangbum · Joined: 23 Aug 2005

As a guy said to me. As you stay longer here just threaten him with korean punishment. ie do as the koreans do. If not just pick him up and dump hims out side. he he clings to his desk, drag the desk out. If not pretend to shake his hand and just squeeze until he understands

ulsanchris · Joined: 19 Jun 2003 Location: take a wild guess

Two ways you can go. Pay him lots of attention. Make sure you ask him questions before you ask anyone else. make him a class captain. etc.

or just ignore him completely. never ask him any questions. don't check his homework. if he is noisy let him be noisy and concentrate on the other kids. if you do this well enough he will leave the hagwon.

bundangbum · Joined: 23 Aug 2005

Yeah what ulsanchris said should also work aswell. You could just like lick your fingers and hands and wipe them on him. Always gets what i want in class when i do that.

ubum · Joined: 23 Aug 2005 Location: Gwangju

I definitely would pay him any extra attention unless it was negative. I had a really smart kid in one of my classes who was laughing at another student when the slower student didn��t know the answers. So I just started drilling the kid with cards that we hadn��t gone over yet. After about 5 cards, the kid got the point. Kill his pride a little.

bundangbum · Joined: 23 Aug 2005

Naa let them know who\'s boss and make them leave

babtangee · Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:56 pm Post subject:

I had a kid like that (wonjung's son). He totally turned the class against me on the first day; I was trying to get them to chant a sentence and he had 10 kids going "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh' in a constant, low whine. I told him to go see wonjung. He refused. I went to see wonjung myself, told him this little Michael monster is playing up - only then did I find out it was wonjung's son. He said send him to me. When I told the brat wonjung is waiting for him he went. The wonjung ripped into him hard, and I left happy. But later a K-teacher told me as soon as I was gone the wonjung was all "sekki, sekki," hugging and coddling his son in some lame appeal for forgiveness for having yelled at him.

Next week the whole class was going "Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh" again. When I mentioned wonjung the Michael monster stopped, but I knew it was only temporary so I played a game. Everyone has a word beginning with the same letter as their own name: "Jelly Jenny", "Crunchy Chris", etc. First kid said his word-name. Next kid had to say the first kid's word-name and then his own... continue until the last kid has to repeat everyone's word-name from memory (encourage the other kids to help if any student can't remember - too limit the shame factor).

When a kid couldn't think of a word beginning with the first letter of their name, I would give them one. This is where retribution set in. I christened Michael "Monkey Michael"... the whole class thought it was hysterical, except Michael. He wanted a change, but I refused.

Now when I say "Michael," half the class says "Monkey Michael, Monkey Michael" and laughs at him while he goes red. He is no longer the class rebel-leader, but rather the class joke... sometimes I have to stop them from taunting the poor little tacker.

joe_doufu · Joined: 09 May 2005 Location: Elsewhere

Good suggestions, all. I'm definitely not going to use positive reinforcement in this case... all sorts of goodwill have failed. The principal (manager) won't do anything to punish the class. I'm afraid that if I physically drag the kid out of the room, the Korean government will steamroll me as a child abuser and I'll wind up in prison with nothing but kimchi to eat for years. But maybe that's what I've got to do.

The Kung Fu Hustle · Joined: 30 Jan 2005 Location: Incheon

I've got the same problem except they're grade 6 girls. Right about that age when they learn how to be bitches. The ring-leader threatens the girls with "If you don't do what I say, I'll make you a no-mates" and all the kids believe it.

I've tried goodwill and everything, the girls have cried and screamed and even falsely accused me of beating them by smacking themselves on the wrist for 5 minutes straight and then taking "proof" pictures with their cellphones.

In the end, a new K teacher came and they hate him for than me, so we're friends now!! 0_o Sometimes she'll still play up but I just ignore the troublemaker, let her read her stupid comics and teach the kids who want to listen. Sometimes when nothing works a weird resolution with present itself and you just gotta go with that. If it was a guy though I wouldn't be afraid to get my hands dirty and drag him outside.

Return Jones · Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:38 pm Post subject:

First try talking to the principal again. I can sympathize with you on the admin sticking up for the students. But try. About a year and a half ago I had a hellish grade 4 class. After the class I brought in the teacher and singled out the worst offenders - about 6 boys. At the time my Korean was only mediocre but I heard her question them and of course they denied everything (throwing books and pencils, punching, kicking, running around like monkeys, etc.) She looked at me and said with a puzzled look "They say they didn't do anything." I replied "Umm...they're lying. Children do that to get out of trouble." It couldn't believe that this naive woman was a teacher with many years of experience. With a bit more prodding from me she questioned them more and finally was able to get some truth out of them. They were punished with "Hands up, eyes closed" and missed their entire lunchtime recess. The class has been much better ever since. I still teach that bunch this year.

Freezer Burn · Joined: 11 Apr 2005 Location: Busan

I bet as soon as you find something that works and you get the class under control there will be a complaint from the parents or the principal forcing you not to use this method of control.
Punishing the other memebers of the class is a really good way of getting them to turn on the 'monkey', stopping the lesson and making them write tedious constant lines for the whole lesson is another subtle way of getting them to turn.
Embarrassing the kid is another, stay calm and in control and create a way for the other kids to look at the trouble maker as a clown rather than a leader, I had two or three kids here at the hogwon that were causing me grief, they believed that they were smarter and I couldn't teach them anything, so I hammered them with every question and each time the got something wrong I asked all the other kids to point at him and laugh Nelson style ha-ha, and then asked someone else who would get it right.
After a while of this the student wasn't so know-it-all and pulled in line, a bit crass but it worked well.
The other way is to completly ignore him, utterly and totally ignore him, act like he's not in the class that will pi-ss him off because he's not getting a reaction out of you, which is what he wants in the first place.

Good Luck