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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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 Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 8:56 pm Post subject: Sure signs the tide is turning |
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August 21, 2005
Bill Moyer, 73, wears a "Bullshit Protector" flap over his ear while President George W. Bush addresses the Veterans of Foreign Wars.
(Photo: Douglas C. Pizac / AP Photo)
Approval ratings are at record lows, and dissent is growing, but this I think says a lot.
Unfortunately it is too late- he probably should have put on his ear protectors last September. I know that public opinion is turning, but the war will go on and intensify until about the middle of next year (until about 6 months before the midterm elections- which is the documented extent of the American attention span). Then things will appear to improve, there will be a "light at the end of the tunnel", the defense of whomever over there will be handed over to the Iraqi police, and a new regime of idiots will be elected in November 2006. This will be followed by new troop dispatches to Iraq, and who knows what other part of the axis of evil. |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2005 11:05 pm Post subject: Re: Sure signs the tide is turning |
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| Unbelievable really. What did the American electorate expect exactly? |
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RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:03 am Post subject: Re: Sure signs the tide is turning |
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| Butterfly wrote: |
| Unbelievable really. What did the American electorate expect exactly? |
A fair and democratic election. |
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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:26 am Post subject: Re: Sure signs the tide is turning |
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| Butterfly wrote: |
| Unbelievable really. What did the American electorate expect exactly? |
Some of us expected the opposition to come up with a viable candidate. Unfortunately we were disappointed. Can't wait until the Constitutional amendment lets Arnold run. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:27 am Post subject: Re: Sure signs the tide is turning |
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| joe_doufu wrote: |
| Some of us expected the opposition to come up with a viable candidate. Unfortunately we were disappointed. Can't wait until the Constitutional amendment lets Arnold run. |
I'm going to immigrate to Canada or Mexico when that passes... |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:02 am Post subject: Re: Sure signs the tide is turning |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| joe_doufu wrote: |
| Some of us expected the opposition to come up with a viable candidate. Unfortunately we were disappointed. Can't wait until the Constitutional amendment lets Arnold run. |
I'm going to immigrate to Canada or Mexico when that passes... |
Yeah, a fair election to start with, and this one wasn't. I won't even argue the point.
Remember that in 2004 69% of eligible voters voted. Bush "won" 51% of that. That means that he got the vote of 35% of the eligible voters.
I can give a lot of reasons why the 31% didn't vote, but the reality is that the majority of them are poor or working class or minorities. If they voted, it would likely have been for Bush's opponent. I agree that there was not a viable candidate to appeal to these potential voters.
So, to say "what did Americans expect" should be changed to "what did 35% of Americans expect?". The rest of us knew exactly what to expect, and we were correct. |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 3:42 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The rest of us knew exactly what to expect, and we were correct. |
To make it really clear, that is the 65% of American voters who did NOT vote for Bush. |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| Wangja wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The rest of us knew exactly what to expect, and we were correct. |
To make it really clear, that is the 65% of American voters who did NOT vote for Bush. |
Yes, exactly. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:43 am Post subject: |
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And 51 % of electronic voting machines and or optical scanning devices that did.  |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:47 am Post subject: |
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John Kerry spews just as much, if not more, bs than Bush ever will. America's political scene is in an absolutely dismal, depressing state. Republicans constantly lie to make things sound great, Democrats constantly lie to make things sound awful. The other parties aren't even allowed a voice at debates, or anywhere in the media except to serve as "ooh look what the freaks are saying" headlines.
It's sickening. Most Americans don't follow the news or become educated beyond their formal schooling years, and eventually find themselves actually believing the garbage the Sean Hannity and Michael Moore toss their way. That's my opinion about most Americans: trash cans.
I love my country.
Q~ |
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Deconstructor
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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I am astonished that it took this long for Americans to realize that they were being had. I am astonished that they bought a single word that came out of Bush�s mouth. What happened to Americans?
Now Americans are stuck. Can't leave with Iraq, can't live without Iraq. Why did they lose 2000 of their best men and women for nothing? And if they stay there for 10 years, and it is very much possible, that number will be 20,000.
Isn't this another black wall?
Nothing is better than dying for one's country and nothing is worse than dying for nothing. Iraq will forever qualify as dying for nothing. |
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papa_geno
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Location: Gangneung
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Deconstructor wrote: |
| I am astonished that it took this long for Americans to realize that they were being had. |
It didn't. It took some Americans this long to realize they were being had, and some haven't realized it yet. I'm with Qinella on this one, though...the Dems are no real option. And citing the 30 however many odd percentage of folks who didn't vote as a vote for Kerry is basically wrong-headed. The difficulty is in the fact that this many don't vote, and a great many who do vote don't think much about it. It's not just crap politicians (and what politician isn't crap, really?), it's also a crap electorate that has lost sight of the basic principles of political responsibility and self-governance.
Just my good morning two cents, though. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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I suppose this means that a viable third party will emerge as the Republicans get slammed for the president's performance and the democrats waver?
What's a third party? 
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papa_geno
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Location: Gangneung
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Personally, I'm an absurdicrant. The problem is we keep voting for politicians. I'm still looking for the perfect non-candidate. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| papa_geno wrote: |
| It's not just crap politicians (and what politician isn't crap, really?), it's also a crap electorate that has lost sight of the basic principles of political responsibility and self-governance. |
Well, here's a start, anyway - at least somebody is saying what is needed. Gary Hart, former Colorado Senator who took a stab at the White House some years back :
In 2008 I want a leader who is willing now to say: I made a mistake, and for my mistake I am going to Iraq and accompanying the next planeload of flag-draped coffins back to Dover Air Force Base. And I am going to ask forgiveness for my mistake from every parent who will talk to me.
Further, this leader should say: I am now going to give a series of speeches across the country documenting how the administration did not tell the American people the truth, why this war is making our country more vulnerable and less secure, how we can drive a wedge between Iraqi insurgents and outside jihadists and leave Iraq for the Iraqis to govern, how we can repair the damage done to our military, what we and our allies can do to dry up the jihadist's swamp, and what dramatic steps we must take to become energy-secure and prevent Gulf Wars III, IV and so on.? |
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