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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 8:20 am Post subject: Ben Stein: "Get off his back" |
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Food for thought, or fuel for fire:
I like Ben Stein, and a lot of what he says here is true, but at the same time he sounds pretty intent on giving George Bush a pass on taking responsibility for anything whatsoever, everything from Environmental policy to Federal response to the disaster.
It would have been nice to find Ben less partisan than Michael Moore, but sadly this is not the case.
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Special Report
Get Off His Back (Updated)
By Ben Stein
Published 9/2/2005 11:59:59 PM
***UPDATED: Sunday, Sept. 4, 2005, 2:13 p.m.***
A few truths, for those who have ears and eyes and care to know the truth:
1.) The hurricane that hit New Orleans and Mississippi and Alabama was an astonishing tragedy. The suffering and loss of life and peace of mind of the residents of those areas is acutely horrifying.
2.) George Bush did not cause the hurricane. Hurricanes have been happening for eons. George Bush did not create them or unleash this one.
3.) George Bush did not make this one worse than others. There have been far worse hurricanes than this before George Bush was born.
4.) There is no overwhelming evidence that global warming exists as a man-made phenomenon. There is no clear-cut evidence that global warming even exists. There is no clear evidence that if it does exist it makes hurricanes more powerful or makes them aim at cities with large numbers of poor people. If global warming is a real phenomenon, which it may well be, it started long before George Bush was inaugurated, and would not have been affected at all by the Kyoto treaty, considering that Kyoto does not cover the world's worst polluters -- China, India, and Brazil. In a word, George Bush had zero to do with causing this hurricane. To speculate otherwise is belief in sorcery.
5.) George Bush had nothing to do with the hurricane contingency plans for New Orleans. Those are drawn up by New Orleans and Louisiana. In any event, the plans were perfectly good: mandatory evacuation. It is in no way at all George Bush's fault that about 20 percent of New Orleans neglected to follow the plan. It is not his fault that many persons in New Orleans were too confused to realize how dangerous the hurricane would be. They were certainly warned. It's not George Bush's fault that there were sick people and old people and people without cars in New Orleans. His job description does not include making sure every adult in America has a car, is in good health, has good sense, and is mobile.
6.) George Bush did not cause gangsters to shoot at rescue helicopters taking people from rooftops, did not make gang bangers rape young girls in the Superdome, did not make looters steal hundreds of weapons, in short make New Orleans into a living hell.
7.) George Bush is the least racist President in mind and soul there has ever been and this is shown in his appointments over and over. To say otherwise is scandalously untrue.
8.) George Bush is rushing every bit of help he can to New Orleans and Mississippi and Alabama as soon as he can. He is not a magician. It takes time to organize huge convoys of food and now they are starting to arrive. That they get in at all considering the lawlessness of the city is a miracle of bravery and organization.
9.) There is not the slightest evidence at all that the war in Iraq has diminished the response of the government to the emergency. To say otherwise is pure slander.
10.) If the energy the news media puts into blaming Bush for an Act of God worsened by stupendous incompetence by the New Orleans city authorities and the malevolence of the criminals of the city were directed to helping the morale of the nation, we would all be a lot better off.
11.) New Orleans is a great city with many great people. It will recover and be greater than ever. Sticking pins into an effigy of George Bush that does not resemble him in the slightest will not speed the process by one day.
12.) The entire episode is a dramatic lesson in the breathtaking callousness of government officials at the ground level. Imagine if Hillary Clinton had gotten her way and they were in charge of your health care.
God bless all of those dear people who are suffering so much, and God bless those helping them, starting with George Bush. |
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8693 |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:08 am Post subject: ... |
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| It's pretty astounding that someone can make 12 points about this tragedy and not even mention levee funding. |
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sonofthedarkstranger
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 10:29 am Post subject: |
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The way he dispatched those straw men is pretty impressive.
That said--gotta love Ben Stein. |
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Bo Peabody
Joined: 25 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| Ben Stein and Michael Moore in a closed cage wrestling match. Now wouldn't that be nice, huh? |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| I'd watch it on pay-per-view if you changed 'wrestling match' to 'knife-fight'. |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| There is no overwhelming evidence that global warming exists as a man-made phenomenon. There is no clear-cut evidence that global warming even exists. |
I find it shocking that even quasi intelligent men could disregard mountains of evidence on a whim.
Of course, we can find brainiacs like prof stot at the Ulondon...(HAHAAA...my mistake...he's actually a geology prof at the centre for asian and african studies IN london...my bad.)
http://www.monsanto.co.uk/news/2000/july2000/03072000agriconline.htmlFINALLY!!!
Some straight talk about GMOs.http://www.uottawa.ca/vr-recherche-research/perspectives/v4n1/412.html I've been waiting for monsanto to come out with it's even handed, well balanced approach.
It's not that his points are bad, it's that the interviewers questions (strangely) are preeeeetty guided.
And since i can hardly believe scientists out there don't support global warming, i thought i'd wander around and toss these links up...
i couldn't find much good stuff...a link to this stott guy where his interview was trying to be subconsciously "linked" to the BBC "truthwillout" ended up being the actual homepage...heard of it?
http://www.uottawa.ca/vr-recherche-research/perspectives/v4n1/412.html
This guy gives an interesting study. I wonder how this will come into play in the future...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1462380/postsan article clearing things up the OTHER way.
i'm sorry...maybe this is boring... |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:38 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| It's pretty astounding that someone can make 12 points about this tragedy and not even mention levee funding. |
Those levees have needed updating for decades. That's right, long before the eeeeeeevil Bushie got into office. Even long before Slick Willie sat on his throne. Money has been allocated to them before but New Orleans local politicians have "diverted" the money for years. Yes, the govt. took some of that funding away, but the chances of those levees being finished by now is zilch.
Do you really think think these levees just needed fixing in the last 4 1/2 years? |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 12:05 pm Post subject: ... |
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| Quote: |
Those levees have needed updating for decades. That's right, long before the eeeeeeevil Bushie got into office. Even long before Slick Willie sat on his throne. Money has been allocated to them before but New Orleans local politicians have "diverted" the money for years. Yes, the govt. took some of that funding away, but the chances of those levees being finished by now is zilch.
Do you really think think these levees just needed fixing in the last 4 1/2 years? |
No Wango, I didn't.
You, fer sure, would've savaged "Slick Willie" if this had happened under his watch.
Of course, it wasn't he who was screaming about Dems raising taxes if they were elected. You got your deal, didn't you?
Less government. Woohoo! We've certainly seen that now, haven't we?
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| Yes, the govt. took some of that funding away, but the chances of those levees being finished by now is zilch. |
Some?
Let's include about $160 billion for your war. Zilch Schmilch.
But keep going with it, dude. Let the reports flow in. Wal-Mart wanted to bring in supplies. FEMA told them it wasn't necessary. The Red Cross wanted in. FEMA officials said 'Nope'. It's not safe while we watch New Orleans turn into some sick version of Thunderdome.
International aid? Don't need it.
Airborne division in NC? Can't.
Clearly, the levees needed fixing a long time ago. If you're going to blame Clinton, you can blame Reagan.
Your President, that you've managed to explain out of lying about WMDs to fight a war of convenince got caugt with his pants down. He crippled FEMA with his own agenda.
You, who were once fond of labeling things "talking points", are hanging out in the wind.
How's the weather out there? |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 4:01 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
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Those levees have needed updating for decades. That's right, long before the eeeeeeevil Bushie got into office. Even long before Slick Willie sat on his throne. Money has been allocated to them before but New Orleans local politicians have "diverted" the money for years. Yes, the govt. took some of that funding away, but the chances of those levees being finished by now is zilch.
Do you really think think these levees just needed fixing in the last 4 1/2 years? |
No Wango, I didn't.
You, fer sure, would've savaged "Slick Willie" if this had happened under his watch. |
Yep, you're probably right.
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Of course, it wasn't he who was screaming about Dems raising taxes if they were elected. You got your deal, didn't you?
Less government. Woohoo! We've certainly seen that now, haven't we? |
Yes, too bad the local and state people didn't pick up their end of the bargain either. This whole mess was a failure on multiple fronts.
| Quote: |
Yes, the govt. took some of that funding away, but the chances of those levees being finished by now is zilch.
| Quote: |
Some?
Let's include about $160 billion for your war. Zilch Schmilch.
But keep going with it, dude. Let the reports flow in. Wal-Mart wanted to bring in supplies. FEMA told them it wasn't necessary. The Red Cross wanted in. FEMA officials said 'Nope'. It's not safe while we watch New Orleans turn into some sick version of Thunderdome.
International aid? Don't need it.
Airborne division in NC? Can't. |
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Hey, you're not getting any arguments from me about the lack of a timely response from FEMA. But that's not what we're talking about...we're talking about funding for levees that may or may not have made a difference in this whole mess.
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| Clearly, the levees needed fixing a long time ago. If you're going to blame Clinton, you can blame Reagan. |
Yep, and H.W. Bush and Carter and Ford and Nixon and LBJ and Kennedy....
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Your President, that you've managed to explain out of lying about WMDs to fight a war of convenince got caugt with his pants down. He crippled FEMA with his own agenda.
You, who were once fond of labeling things "talking points", are hanging out in the wind.
How's the weather out there? |
There you go mixing your issues again. As far as the FEMA thing is concerned, it may very well be all the eeeeevil Bushie's fault, but until things are sorted out down there we won't really know. Until then, the plan as it stands didn't work quickly enough. I believe it was a failure on all levels of government, including that whacked out NO mayor. |
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gypsyfish
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 8:18 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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| wannago wrote: |
| ... There you go mixing your issues again. As far as the FEMA thing is concerned, it may very well be all the eeeeevil Bushie's fault, but until things are sorted out down there we won't really know. Until then, the plan as it stands didn't work quickly enough. I believe it was a failure on all levels of government, including that whacked out NO mayor. |
Yes, I would say that it's the 'eeeeevil Bushie's' fault for appointing a political hack who had no experience in emergency management to be in the position. ("Brownie, you're doing a heck'uva job.") I'm sure he would have done a good job running a horse show, though.
But you're right, there's plenty of blame to be handed out. |
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animalbirdfish
Joined: 04 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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I doubt we'll ever know exactly where blame lies - and in what proportions - even after the water subsides. Bush has appointed himself leader of the investigative commission on the matter. That's like OJ saying he's going to find the "real killer."
I don't think Bush deserves 100% of the blame for this, but he sure gets the lion's share for the pisspoor response to Katrina. People are howling about him needing state approval to send in federal forces. But really, since when did Bush care about surperceding the power of the states? If a feeding tube in Florida can't stop him, why would a hurricane?
To take the longview, though, the New Orleans government has to take the bulk of the responsibility for the city's lack of preparation. Wannago's right in that those levees should've been repaired long ago, but the city government is too damned corrupt.
But that's just New Orleans. Who gets to take the fall for Mississippi? I don't know. How about William Faulkner? It'd be impossible to bungle matters more than those Bundrens. |
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