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salboski
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
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 Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:44 pm Post subject: quitting a hagwon |
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| What are some legit reasons to quit working at a hagwon? When my wife and I first got here, we were supposed to have a 2 bedroom apt. Our director said "in Korea 2 bedrooms means 2 rooms". So now we are stuck in a very small 1 bedroom apt. She also has now asked us to work out of our contracted hours. They are from 2:00 pm to 9:30 pm and she says "don't worry i'll pay you overtime" but, we only teach 40 min classes and in order for us to get overtime, we would have to teach like 11 or 12 classes a day. So we refused and she got all pissy and threatened to take our lunch breaks away and fill it with a class. Are these legit reasons for quitting, or is this just a typical Korean director. Any help is appreciated |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Sounds like the normal BS. Don't know if it would be 'legitimate' grounds for leaving, but quitting and getting off the better for it depends on so many factors. How long have you been there, and has your E2 visa been processed? |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure how helpful this will be, but in my contract (not a Hagwon) "hours" is deemed to be synonymous with "classes", thus 22 "hours" = 22 45-minute classes.
Hopefully it'll be the same for you because that's one area (hours not equalling classes) that's exploitable. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:44 am Post subject: |
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sounds like you have a bad boss.
Be firm with her...with Koreans you really have to put your foot down.
Tell her that you consider an hour to be the length of a class whether it is 40 or 50 minutes. As the contract does not specify(or does it?) what is construed as an hour it is not her perogitive to decide arbitrarily.
Unfortunately you let your boss get away with one lie and now she will go for the gold:
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| Our director said "in Korea 2 bedrooms means 2 rooms". |
2 bedrooms is quite specific even here in Korea. Since you didnt call them on that one they have apparently decided that you are of the doormat FT variety and will take any and all abuse directed upon you lying down and saying please sir may I have some more.
If you both work at the same school stand up and law down the law....they need you a hell of a lot more than you need them.
If you are working 2-9:30 that is 37.5 hours a week....what does your contract say?(minus your lunch breaks of course)
If it gets so bad you feel you must leave...get paid and leave....never give notice unless you feel like having your last pay being deducted ....not to mention the guilt trip and hostility that you will have to endure for the remainder of your time there. |
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salboski
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:09 am Post subject: |
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the thing is that we don't work on wednesday's. But the way I see it is that it isn't our fault. That is what she put in the contract. We never asked for wednesday's off. and she says "you only teach 22 hrs per." But we come in on wednesday's for 3 hrs for typing up tests, lesson plats etc.
so we are physically at our job for like 32-34 hrs per week. If we teach more we will be there for like 40hrs a week at the same pay. |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 5:03 am Post subject: |
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Tell her that you consider an hour to be the length of a class whether it is 40 or 50 minutes. As the contract does not specify(or does it?) what is construed as an hour it is not her perogitive to decide arbitrarily.
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Dude, an hour is an hour. You speak English, right? An hour = 60 minutes. Seriously, when was the last time anyone sat down and 'construed' how long an hour equals? If a contract says you teach 22 "hours" per week, that's enforceable. If you teach 22 x 45-minute classes, then, justifiably, you've 22 x 15 minutes left to teach (without pay) and if someone failed to spot that potential loophole then - sorry about this - that's your bloody problem. Perhaps it would be better for folks to ask in advance how long classes are. Most contracts make it clear that "hours" = teaching hours (not including prep time). You can't argue with it. And even if it doesn't make that clear, hour = hour in English and the contract was signed.
I'm one of the lucky ones whereby "22 hours" arbitrarily doesn't actually mean 22, er, hours. It means 22 x 45min classes and anything over that I get paid overtime for. That's not applicable across the board however, which is a shame but folks in that position may as well just get on with it. |
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jlb
Joined: 18 Sep 2003
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:27 am Post subject: |
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You can always quit but there are consquences:
1. Do the midnight run, highly unethical but you won't get screwed. You may however screw yourself if you want to come back to Korea.
2. Quit the legit way (give notice), kiss ass to get a release letter and find a new job in Korea or don't worry about the release letter and go home. You may be screwed out of money.
3. Suck it up or put your foot down and let the dice roll where they may. Either your owner will be angry or you will be burnt out.
Those are the options as I see them.
No one can force you to work at a crap job, especially if the owner has gone back on some of the things she promised in the contract. That is not so cool.
But just as an aside, unless it says an hour=45 minutes in the contract, I think 1 hour=60 minutes is how you'll have to interpet it. Seems pretty standard. Not working Wednesdays (and weekends I assume) is a pretty sweet deal so maybe just deal with the other crappy stuff. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| jlb wrote: |
You can always quit but there are consquences:
1. Do the midnight run, highly unethical but you won't get screwed. You may however screw yourself if you want to come back to Korea.
2. Quit the legit way (give notice), kiss ass to get a release letter and find a new job in Korea or don't worry about the release letter and go home. You may be screwed out of money.
3. Suck it up or put your foot down and let the dice roll where they may. Either your owner will be angry or you will be burnt out.
Those are the options as I see them.
No one can force you to work at a crap job, especially if the owner has gone back on some of the things she promised in the contract. That is not so cool.
But just as an aside, unless it says an hour=45 minutes in the contract, I think 1 hour=60 minutes is how you'll have to interpet it. Seems pretty standard. Not working Wednesdays (and weekends I assume) is a pretty sweet deal so maybe just deal with the other crappy stuff. |
I think this is a good sumary of they usual options. If you do decide on a runner, please leave a not behind explaining exactly why you left; Koreans just don't seem to realise what pisses us off and what doesn't.
It might also help to get a list of all the parents' numbers in the event you have to hold a gun to their head.
Concerning working a few more hours than you're getting paid, for me it would depend on what the working conditions were like. At my old job I was putting in 35-40 and getting paid for 30, sometimes with a bit of overtime, but never as much as I actually worked; but there were things that were really pissing me off so I gave wongjongnim-babo one warning and then resigned. At my current job I work 22 'teaching hours' but in fact am at the school about 50 hours most weeks; but this is largely by my own doing, as I really like my job and there's little to do in my town on weekdays. |
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salboski
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks so much everyone. I think we will try to suck it up. Another thing is she has screwd us around on our work visa. She keeps saying, "we will go this weekend" then she cancels. this has been done 3 times now. We actually overstayed our tourist visa (one month) and she had to go to immigration and pay our fines. I just see it as a bad situation. thanks for so much help |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| SPINOZA wrote: |
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Tell her that you consider an hour to be the length of a class whether it is 40 or 50 minutes. As the contract does not specify(or does it?) what is construed as an hour it is not her [prerogative] to decide arbitrarily.
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Dude, an hour is an hour. You speak English, right? An hour = 60 minutes. Seriously, when was the last time anyone sat down and 'construed' how long an hour equals? |
Some contracts specify an "hour" is the length of the class (typically 45-50 minutes plus the small break time between which is 5 or 10 minutes). So an hour doesn't necessarily mean an hour. Then there is the classic comedic saw about 50 minutes being an hour for a Psychiatrist. It doesn't sound like his contract specifies whether they're talking a real hour or a "teaching hour". But there is grounds for confusion if he's been some place else before where they talk hours as being "teaching hours". |
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I_Am_Wrong
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: whatever
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| You don't have your work visa yet!!!?? You're on a tourist visa? Just leave, your contract isn't even binding if you don't have the visa. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| I_Am_Wrong wrote: |
| You don't have your work visa yet!!!?? You're on a tourist visa? Just leave, your contract isn't even binding if you don't have the visa. |
Exactly - you're skating on thin ice as it is, then. Actually, if immigration has a record of you overstaying a tourist visa you might not be able to get an E2 - I know someone to whom this happened. |
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margaret
Joined: 14 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 12:30 am Post subject: |
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Yes, you have a dishonest boss who has been getting you to work illegally as well as lying about the apartment size. Get out and find yourself a real job.
margaret. |
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antoniothegreat
Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Location: Yangpyeong
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 2:43 am Post subject: get out |
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| just so you get the point, like everyone else said, Get out now. you are not bound if you have no visa. leave and teach elsewhere. |
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teachingld2004
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:58 am Post subject: leaving a job |
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Why on earth are u staying? You do not have your visas yet. Get paid and go. There are tons of jobs available all the time.
By the way, if your contract says 30 hours a week, that is teaching hours, (usually), so even if you are there for 34 hours and you teach for 30, that is what it is.
Good luck, there are lots of jobs here. Start looking tomorrow. (well, after Choosok) |
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