Korean Job Discussion Forums

[kermo]

I was chatting today with two Korean co-workers: one young mother, and a mother-to-be. We were discussing different parenting strategies, and we started talking about where the baby tends to sleep. Koreans, they said, never left their babies to cry in another room. Children sleep in a bed with their moms until they are 5-7 years old. I asked where the father sleeps, and I was told that he is given another room.

I gently asked: How does this affect the marriage? I was met with a blank stare. I am guessing that traditional Korean marriages carry different expectations as for as married-with-kids relationships are concerned, but it was tough not to blurt out "Oh! Now I understand why there are so many room-salons in Korea!"

I asked how the husband feels about this, and one woman said "I love my baby better than I love my husband." She added that she puts her baby to bed early, then spends time with her husband. Well, phew.

I've had good friendships with Korean people who have families, and who attempt to keep the spark alive. Suddenly I'm wondering whether they are exception rather than the rule.

By the way, I'm trying to look at this from a "cultural relativist" point of view. I know what I have been raised to believe, and the type of relationship I would prefer, but I'm hesitant to come out and say this is "just *beeped* up." I'm more interested in exploring whether this sort of husband-banishing is actually prevalent in this culture, and how people deal with it.

[sonofthedarkstranger]

I don't know how prevalent the husband banishing is. One thing I did notice a lot in Korea tho was that grandmas often did the bulk of the childcare, and seemed to me to have more of a relationship with the kids than the mothers did. I'd say I saw many cases of this but I don't know if I'd go so far as to say most. But it seemed quite common.

Was she serious when she said she loved her baby more than her husband? How good was her English?

I think there's something to be said for co-sleeping up to a certain age. 5-7 is a bit old for that. I have a son who's almost 2. For about the first year, he slept in our queen-sized bed (see I don't get why the husband has to be banished--don't they have double beds??) He's been sleeping in his own room for a long time now. The whole mentality of not leaving your kids to sleep alone, to me, really only applies when the kid is a baby.

And yeah, co-sleeping does cut into lovemaking opportunities. but you just work around it and be creative. It's a realtively short sacrifice for the kids benefit.

I'm not trying to make this discussion about me, I'm just saying I can appreciate--to some extent--where she's coming from re: co-sleeping. Past a certain degree, the attitude you describe seems a bit fvcked. And that's not culturally judgmental of me because American's do equally fvcked things in raising thier kids. Many do, anyway.

[tzechuk]

Loving a child and loving a husband is different - the kind of love is different,

Loving a child is simple and pure. Loving a husband involves lust ....

If I were to look at the love I give Letty, I could easily say that i loved her more than my husband..

Then again, I look at my husband and I love him more, too! But it's different!

[sonofthedarkstranger]

I think that goes without saying.

Acknowledging the different kinds of love I have for my son and my wife, I'd still say I love them both equally, with all my heart.

I would never say "I love my wife more than my son" or "I love my son more than my wife," even if the context of the conversation was clearly paternal love or romantic love. Those words are kind of an abomination to me, really.

I understand the point you are making but I don't think you really mean it.

[The evil penguin]

Loving your kids the same way as loving your wife is illegal in all states of australia except tasmania.....

[Leslie Cheswyck]

[Babayaga]

[sonofthedarkstranger]

[Babayaga]

[sonofthedarkstranger]

Well, some of this is true. Kids are indeed wonderful--most of the time. Don't think for a minute that they never pull attitudes on you, make unreasonable demands, are ungrateful, etc.

Ah don't listen to me...my son will be 2 soon. It is a very stormy chapter of anyone's life. Similar to the tempestuous teenage years in many ways.

Some points:

1. Kids pull sh_t with their parents that they wouldn't dream of trying with anyone else. OF COURSE your nieces and nephews are little angels with you!

2. Kids grow up. They become smelly, sullen teenagers for whom everything "sucks." Then, on into adulthood (sometimes).

[peemil]

[kermo]

I was hoping to hear from men who have seen their marriages change to adapt to the arrival of a baby. I wonder about Korean women, and whether they put their marriage relationships on the back burner, and whether this is a conscious and normal choice.

From what I have read and heard in my culture (North American), I think it's normal for men to feel a little left out, despite a prevailing attitude that men should be part of the bonding process, share the parenting duties, etc. Kicking the man out of the bedroom really takes things to a new level though.

[Real Reality]

Survey Shows Home Is No Longer Shelter
Lee Dong-won, sociology professor at Ewha Womans University, presented the survey entitled "Korea's Family Culture" at a seminar held last week, which discussed the present state of Korean families. "The house is turning into a boardinghouse for men, and factors attracting women into the home are decreasing, compared with the situation in the past," Lee said. "Few people feel happy at home, but it is hard to blame one side."

"Men are devoting themselves to their career and want the family to assist them, while women think the family takes precedence. In this situation, the gap between spouses is getting wider," Lee said. "This kind of problem is particularly serious among middle-aged women."
Thus, the survey showed that Korean families are in a state of anomie, with the time-honored functions of family disappearing and no adaptive measures being taken.

According to the survey, one out of five spouses don't look forward to coming home. Some husbands say it is because they hate their wife's nagging. Others say they want to drink with colleagues. Wives say they don't like their husbands and educating children is too much of a burden.
"Among the survey respondents, 60 percent answered they have seriously considered divorce. In the case of women, around half of them were ready to separate from their spouses but couldn't because of children." Meanwhile, the data showed that the lifestyle of couples in their 20s is slowly changing, from children-centered to spouse-centered. They attach more importance to their husbands and wives than children, compared with elderly couples, the professor said.
By Shin Kyung-hwa, The Korea Herald (May 29, 2001)
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2001/05/29/200105290025.asp

Women taking lead in filing for divorce
JoongAng Daily (July 01, 2005)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200506/30/200506302309010009900090409041.html

Women aspire to be housewives without any of the housework
By Sarah Womack, Social Affairs Correspondent
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/05/11/nwife11.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/05/11/ixhome.html

Korean Children Have Won Signs in their Eyes: Poll
by Park Won-su, Chosun Ilbo (February 2, 2005)
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200502/200502010025.html

Men feel responsible, women sad after marriage in Korea
After marriage, most men feel a heavy responsibility and women feel sad for having to leave their parents, according to research by Bien-Aller, a match-making company.
By Kwon Ji-young, The Korea Herald (June 6, 2005)
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2005/06/06/200506060028.asp