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AbbeFaria
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam
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 Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:48 pm Post subject: Mac vs. PC, the debate rages on. |
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So there's this flaming commie-liberal here in the States that writes for a little newspaper in San Francisco. I consider myself a liberal but this guy has me beat by several miles. He takes liberalism to new and previously undiscovered and inplausible hights that sometimes, to be quite honest, really freaks me out. And I'm about the most mellow guy I know.
There is one area where he and I are in total agreement, however. That is in our love of Mac. (well...also our firm belief that Wal-Mart is the embodiment of all that is souless and evil in this world, but that's a different thread) I check his archives periodically to see what other things he's said in the past and, low and behold, I come across this little article that throws all kinds of gas on the Mac vs. PC debate. I say to myself "this is exactly what I was thinking!" When he's good, he's very good, I'll give him that.
I know it's been done to death, this topic. In magazines, message boards, coffee house dicussions and by the great thinkers of our time, but when this guy-Mark Morford is his name-does it, it's incredibly scathing and full of wit. IMHO, anyway.
So, for both the Mac and PC users out there, I offer you this article to read:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2005/02/04/notes020405.DTL
Now, I checked several pages of this forum to see if this has already been discussed, or overly discussed, and after looking at about 20 pages, didn't see it, so I figured it would be save to post a thread and see if anyone feels like commenting. He says it better then I can, so I let you decide.
Oh, and I strongly recommend clicking on the links in the article where he refers to the world-wide hacker competition. It's amazing.
-S- |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Eh, didn't do much for me. He even comes right out and says he's probably being unfair, so you have to give him points for honesty.
But his point at the beginning? I dunno. That his SO is a doofus? That he was an s.o.b. for not helping? He made it sound like they'd never heard of a computer virus, or a/v s/w.
And it's not nearly as good an evaluation of the differences between Apple and Microsoft as the now ancient "In the beginning was the Command Line" by Neal Stephenson.
http://www.cryptonomicon.com/beginning.html
Stephenson acknowledges that it's out of date and that he is an OS-X fan, but it's still a good read. |
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AbbeFaria
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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I downloaded it, but I couldn't open it. I've had this problem before, I think it's some kind of incompatibility with OSX.
-S- |
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Pangit
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Location: Puet mo.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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I like the Stephenson read better.
Which reminds me. Gotta pick up Quicksilver sometime. |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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There's no real debate.
I can download a million things ready to go on a PC (apps in particular) that cover everything from video conversion to audio editing to word processing. I can find the same stuff for a Mac, but it's not as easy to find and it's not as easy to get a hack or a crack.
I can go to any major center in the world and pick up hard drives and video cards and sound cards and any other hardware and have a huge selection to choose from with few worries.
Apple is still cashing in on its "we're not the big guy and the big guy is evil" advertising and attitude from the early 80s and all the aging hipsters and rebel wannabes choose a few lame reasons to go with a Mac.
It's a decent computer, don't get me wrong, but it's not worth the extra hassle of finding hardware and software. |
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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| To me Macs are overhyped. Basically I have to agree with everything that the_beaver said. |
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Swiss James
Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| AbbeFaria wrote: |
I downloaded it, but I couldn't open it. I've had this problem before, I think it's some kind of incompatibility with OSX.
-S- |
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AbbeFaria
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Swiss James wrote: |
| AbbeFaria wrote: |
I downloaded it, but I couldn't open it. I've had this problem before, I think it's some kind of incompatibility with OSX.
-S- |
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It's a mac formatted file, but I think it might be created for OS 9, which is a completely different language than OSX. X is built on a Unix platform for more stability (it's virtually uncrashable for every PC user that's faced the "blue screen of death") and I think the file won't run in that environment. I had the same problem when I upgraded and installed my old Starcraft game. It was easily fixed by downloading a patch, but I haven't checked to see if there's a patch for this particular problem since it almost never comes up.
| Superhero wrote: |
To me Macs are overhyped.
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Now, how something can be overhyped that does everything it claims to do, is beyond me. As in the article, I've never had a virus, I have never had spyware or adware, the OS is beautiful and easy to use, and not one crash since I upgraded to OSX. Expose is one of the most excellent applications I have ever seen.
I can open up 25 different applications at once, assuming I have enough RAM to support them, and switch back and forth between them as fast as I can click the mouse, and it won't even slow me down. I've never seen a PC do anything remotely close.
| the_beaver wrote: |
There's no real debate.
I can download a million things ready to go on a PC (apps in particular) that cover everything from video conversion to audio editing to word processing. I can find the same stuff for a Mac, but it's not as easy to find and it's not as easy to get a hack or a crack.
I can go to any major center in the world and pick up hard drives and video cards and sound cards and any other hardware and have a huge selection to choose from with few worries.
Apple is still cashing in on its "we're not the big guy and the big guy is evil" advertising and attitude from the early 80s and all the aging hipsters and rebel wannabes choose a few lame reasons to go with a Mac.
It's a decent computer, don't get me wrong, but it's not worth the extra hassle of finding hardware and software.
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Some magazine did a pole awhile back and found out that most computer users only use 4 or 5 different applications on a regular basis. Chances are you can find those applications for the Mac. Just about any major software available comes with a Mac version. Of course Macs aren't for everyone, I know this. Especially gamers. I could never be a gamer using a Mac. I accept that and am fine with it. The big ones are there. Unreal Tournament, Halo, Sims, Command and Conquer, a lot of squad-based games, but nowhere near the selection of games as with the PC.
The main point of the above article was that why do people put up with all the problems inherent with Windows. I've never understood it myself and that was even before I read it.
There was an article I read recently where Steve Jobs was talking about the world-wide sucess of the iPod and the iPod line. There are scores of other players on the market, but none of them can match the iPod. And the iTunes Music Store is also the dominating online music retailer in the world. The competitors can only dream of one day having that kind of market share. His theory on this, the iPod and such, is that they were able to get in to a market that Windows didn't have the monopoly. He said (I'm paraphrasing here) that look what happens when you introduce Apple engineering and design in to that kind of arena, one not dominated by Windows: You get a 75% market share.
There were certianly mp3 players before the iPod, and there is even more competition now, but even the best one trails way behind the iPod. As the saying goes "50 million Elvis fans can't be wrong".
But, who knows, right? Most people's minds can't be changed on the subject, they use what they're comfortable with. This topic just makes for intersesting late-night discussion when I don't feel like sleeping. And there's never a shortage of opinioins.
-S- |
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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| AbbeFaria wrote: |
| Now, how something can be overhyped that does everything it claims to do, is beyond me. As in the article, I've never had a virus, I have never had spyware or adware, the OS is beautiful and easy to use, and not one crash since I upgraded to OSX. Expose is one of the most excellent applications I have ever seen. |
I've never had a virus, spyware and adware are easily taken care of and I knwo people on macs who have spyware/adware problems
| AbbeFaria wrote: |
| I can open up 25 different applications at once, assuming I have enough RAM to support them, and switch back and forth between them as fast as I can click the mouse, and it won't even slow me down. I've never seen a PC do anything remotely close. |
My computer can do that (I do it regularly)
I can guarantee that the_beavers computer can easily do 10 times that much. |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| AbbeFaria wrote: |
| I can open up 25 different applications at once, assuming I have enough RAM to support them, and switch back and forth between them as fast as I can click the mouse, and it won't even slow me down. I've never seen a PC do anything remotely close. |
That's cute. My compter does better than remotely close to that -- it kills it (but, to be fair, a dual socket motherboard with two Opteron64s and half a terrabyte of hard drive space plus two gigs of ram with two 19 inch LCD monitors probably isn't indicative of the average computer). As well, to be fair, even a junkie like me doesn't often use 25 apps (only 7 open at the moment).
| Quote: |
| Some magazine did a pole awhile back and found out that most computer users only use 4 or 5 different applications on a regular basis. Chances are you can find those applications for the Mac. Just about any major software available comes with a Mac version. |
The big apps do constitute most of my time, true, but what about when I want circuit design software? How about when I want media conversion software? What about when I want a color wheel? Little use-twice programs don't seem important in the big picture, but when you need a different one for a specific purpose once or twice a month they're pretty important.
| Quote: |
| The main point of the above article was that why do people put up with all the problems inherent with Windows. I've never understood it myself and that was even before I read it. |
What problems? I don't get viruses and adware is easily gotten rid of.
| Quote: |
There was an article I read recently where Steve Jobs was talking about the world-wide sucess of the iPod and the iPod line. There are scores of other players on the market, but none of them can match the iPod. And the iTunes Music Store is also the dominating online music retailer in the world. The competitors can only dream of one day having that kind of market share. His theory on this, the iPod and such, is that they were able to get in to a market that Windows didn't have the monopoly. He said (I'm paraphrasing here) that look what happens when you introduce Apple engineering and design in to that kind of arena, one not dominated by Windows: You get a 75% market share.
There were certianly mp3 players before the iPod, and there is even more competition now, but even the best one trails way behind the iPod. As the saying goes "50 million Elvis fans can't be wrong". |
But with that logic the 50 million+ PC users can't be wrong. . . Anyway, I have friends with ipods and I can't see what the big deal is. |
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Pangit
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Location: Puet mo.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| AbbeFaria wrote: |
| Swiss James wrote: |
| AbbeFaria wrote: |
I downloaded it, but I couldn't open it. I've had this problem before, I think it's some kind of incompatibility with OSX.
-S- |
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It's a mac formatted file, but I think it might be created for OS 9, which is a completely different language than OSX. X is built on a Unix platform for more stability (it's virtually uncrashable for every PC user that's faced the "blue screen of death") and I think the file won't run in that environment. I had the same problem when I upgraded and installed my old Starcraft game. It was easily fixed by downloading a patch, but I haven't checked to see if there's a patch for this particular problem since it almost never comes up. |
Stuffit is stuffit. The major compression format for macs. Why would they drop support for it with an OS upgrade? From what I remember, Stuffit actually came native to the Mac OS, just like Windows now automatically recognizes Zip compressed files without a user having to download WinZip.
I don't have big problems with Windows. I've never gotten a virus in my life and I usually think that people that do get them have acquired them by doing something ridiculous.
I didn't even know Macs had 25 applications available for the platform.
Seriously, though, which ones are you talking about? |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| AbbeFaria wrote: |
I downloaded it, but I couldn't open it. I've had this problem before, I think it's some kind of incompatibility with OSX.
-S- |
Talk about irony!
10 years ago if you worked heavily with graphics, audio and video you were crazy NOT to be using an Apple machine. I'm thinking of musicians in particular the ones I talked to about it were pretty adamant about it.
Does this still hold true?
To a lesser extent perhaps, or not at all anymore?
Or more than ever? |
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AbbeFaria
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| Bulsajo wrote: |
Talk about irony!
10 years ago if you worked heavily with graphics, audio and video you were crazy NOT to be using an Apple machine. I'm thinking of musicians in particular the ones I talked to about it were pretty adamant about it.
Does this still hold true?
To a lesser extent perhaps, or not at all anymore?
Or more than ever? |
I used to do graphic design and the design industry, I'd say atleast 90% of them, use Mac. I had a chance to visit Imerial Litho, it's a printer in Phoenix, Arizona. It's one of the largest in the world and they use Mac almost exclusively. I got to tour their pre-preduction offices and they had one old funky PC stuck in a corner for the occasional person who brought in some file to be exported out of Word. Mostly those people were pitied and shunned. There were a couple of other people with me who asked about it, they weren't Mac users and wanted to know if, hypothetically, they could bring in work on a PC format, and the people in the lab looked like they'd rather have daily prostate exams without lube than try to beat the PC into submission and get it ready to print.
And as for Beaver's comment, You are the kind of person that doesn't need to worry about it. You know your system backwards and forwards and you have your computer crammed with so many things as to make Bill Gates get a chubby. And, as I said, I know Mac's aren't for everyone, I know many people are happy with there system. I'm referring to the Average Joe's and Jane's out there who are lucky if they can find the address window in their browser. My mom for instance. She's constantly having trouble with viruses, adware and spyware. She buys the anti-virus stuff, takes it to the local PC repair man, and a month later she has to go through it again.
Then there's the woman at my last job, she just bought a new Dell and after less then a month and already it slowed to a crawl. She'd go down the list of problems she was having, the problems with Dell's Tech Support, the things her computer won't do anymore, and plead for help from me and another guy I work with. He was able to offer some suggestions but I had to tell her I couldn't help her, I use a Mac, I don't even know what adware is. My advice to her was return it and get a Mac and never worry about it again.
My girlfriend is another example. She's an english teacher at a local highschool here and last year was in charge of the computer labs. The only ones that ever worked were the hand-full of Macs the school used for video editing. Her problems with windows were an everyday thing. This, inspite of having full time tech people on staff.
I could keep going but, I won't.
-S- |
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Naruto
Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:07 am Post subject: |
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PC hardware is cheap...why? Because it's crap components. Pre-built systems like Dell or HP are even worse with their integrated sound and graphics and their expandable 2 GB RAM. Apple = expensive but high quality components, the fastest RISC processing system, stabler OS, better RAM/Memory allocation, expansion to 8 GB RAM...Which would you choose? Quality or Price?
I think the only thing that can be really a disadvantage as a Macintosh user is not the software (hell that argument is way old - we all know that Microsoft invests millions of dollars into Apple Software) but rather the games. If you're a gaming guy like me the Apple is in dire straights when it comes to gaming. But for work, multimedia, music, and general use i'd take a G5 over any Intel or AMD based machine. Face it the only die hard fans of PC's are the ones that enjoy tinkering around with the parts, and with the numerous problems PC's have in both software and hardware, it's geek heaven for these guys.
I own:
4 Games:
Intel Pentium 4 HT 3.02 GHZ
1 GB PC3200 DDR RAM
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro
4 Everything Else:
Apple Powermac Dual G5 2.7 GHZ
2.5 GB RAM
ATI x800 256 MB |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:36 am Post subject: |
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| Naruto wrote: |
| with the numerous problems PC's have in both software and hardware, it's geek heaven for these guys. |
I'll ask again.
What problems? |
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