Korean Job Discussion Forums

[bucheon bum]

This interview pretty much sums up why I sympathize more for palestinians than Israelis:

We Will Lose Our Land if We Stay Quiet

[Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee]

I think the Palestinian ought to get their state but they could have had it if Arafat had not turned down Bill Clintons' offer.

I think Abbas is ok , but he inherited a situation that was more than anyone else's Arafat's doing.

Now I think Israel ought to give him a clean slate to work with , but Gee BB you are being pretty forgiving of what Arafat did. Israel also has to deal with crazies like Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

[bucheon bum]

1. i said lean towards. Didn't say I'm 100% behind the Palestinians
2. Who said anything about Arafat? I didn't, the article didn't. Did you even read it?? It didn't discuss Palestinian politicians whatsoever.

I thought the article was an interesting interview of a community leader. It was an example of Palestinians resisting Israeli "aggression" through peaceful, lawful means. Unfortunately the media does not cover these types of actions because well, violence sells I guess.

I suppose I should have elaborated more in the OP.

Edit: one thing you have to give Israel a little credit for, it does give the Palestinians the ability for some legal actions.

[rapier]

I think its pretty obvious Palestinians will use any territory to advance their ultimate goal of the destruction of Israel.

if they give up their claim to israel, renounce violence, and show they are capable of responsible self goverment, co-existing peacefully and productively with their neighbors..etc then give them their state. but how likely is that? It will never happen.

In supporting the creation of "Palestine" (a state that has no legal grounds, historical claim or legitimacy- you are supporting the jihad not only against Israel but the west, and all infidels. including you.Today israel: tomorrow Europe and America.

Israel is an ally of the U.S.
Bucheon bum you are sympathising with terrorists who like to kill innocent people with bombs and suicide attacks. bin laden is their hero. They are part of a jihad that seeks to ipose their backward ways on the rest of the world.

Its akin to me saying "I support the attacks on America, I hope muslims kill you all with bomb attacks". maybe if you get a bit more terror knocking on your own doorstep, then you'd know what Israelis have had to put up with for decades.

[bucheon bum]

yes, since I sympathize with some poor olive farmers losing their farms (you think you'd be a bit empathetic yourself ) I support terrorism. Brilliant logic there.

[Kuros]

Interesting article. You don't hear enough about the non-violent protests, at least not in American media. I still don't lean towards the Pals, tho. It's a land grab, sure, but it's one village. I would lean more towards the Israelis if they didn't have settlements in Palestine.

[bucheon bum]

1. I doubt this village is unique and is the only one in this situation. Sure, some have been saved thanks to Israeli courts, but this article makes it clear not all of them are that fortunate.
2. Well yeah, I would be less supportive of the Palestinians if there were no settlements, but the fact is there are. As long as they exist, pretty hard to support the Israelis.

[Tiger Beer]

Palestine defientely needs a state, no doubt about that.

[rapier]

I lean towards the israelis. heres why.

An Elusive Palestinian Peace

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Can the Palestinians ever agree to peace with Israel? The prospects do not look good despite Israeli efforts.
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The most vexatious aspect of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is the refusal of any Arab nation to provide any help whatever in resolving it. By dint of wars declared upon it, the Israelis became the unwilling ��occupiers�� of land on which dwelt three million Arabs who came, in time, to be called Palestinians. The land, Gaza and the West Bank, and the people who lived on it previously had been part of Egypt and Jordan.

Anyone who has followed the long, torturous road to peace the Israelis sought from the Palestinians knows that, under the grip of Yasser Arafat, that goal was never going to be achieved. Now we are expected to believe that his longtime second in command, Mahmoud Abbas, will get Palestinians to abandon the destruction the Israel as their only goal in life. It is the worst kept secret in Palestine and Israel that Abbas has virtually no constituency or power to influence events and, in particular, Hamas.

The destruction of Israel has been the sine qua non of Arab excuses. All the problems endemic to Arab culture, society, economies, and governments are blamed on the presence of Israel. If Arab nations were to actually acknowledge the sovereignty of Israel, they would lose the one issue with which to divert Arabs from the primary reason—Islam—they remain impoverished and oppressed.

So, when you read that Hamas wants to participate in Palestinian parliament races or that Hezbollah wants to do the same in Lebanon, one must ask whether Radical Islam can sanction secular governments and the answer to that is no. Radical Islam does not permit for a separation of mosque and state.

The next question is whether ordinary Arabs will find ways around that? Will they, in a desire for real peace and stability, opt finally for democracy? There is some indication in Iraq and Afghanistan this is possible.

Ironically, Arab Israelis have had the right to vote since that nation��s independence in 1948. Arab Israelis have died along side Jewish citizens during the Infitada that tiny nation has endured. Arab Israelis even serve in Israel��s military. And Arab Israelis hold office in the Knesset.

It is well to recall that half of Israel��s Jewish population fled there to escape persecution and death in Arab nations. By contrast, after it declared independence, Arabs that lived in Israel were encouraged to flee by fellow Arabs with promises they would return in the wake of an Arab victory. Today they are the oldest group of refugees extant in the world!

Still, the reality is that there are three million Palestinians the Israelis do not want to rule and whose land, Gaza and the West Bank, they do not want to occupy.

Jews have lived in Israel since they accepted the Covenant, well over three thousand years ago. Indeed, Jews have lived throughout the Middle East for millennia. In Egypt��s Alexandria, there was a large Jewish community centuries before either Jesus or Mohammed. Jews had lived in Iraq had since the days of Babylonian captivity. Indeed, there is hardly a Middle Eastern nation where they have not lived.

The designation of Arab ��Palestinians�� ignores the fact that no such group ever existed prior to Arafat��s campaign to destroy Israel. As chairman of the PLO and head of the Fatah terrorist organization, Arafat stole billions sent to help ��Palestinians.�� At his death, his personal holdings were estimated to be $1.3 billion.

As this is being written, there is much tumult and dissention among Israelis regarding Ariel Sharon��s efforts to abandon settlements surrounded by Arabs. Those settlements were initially created to establish the de facto existence of the Israeli��s right to live where Jews had lived for millennia. The settlers are being asked to pay the price for Sharon��s effort to find peace with Arabs whose sole objective has been Israel��s destruction. Middle East expert, Daniel Pipes, calls the forced removal of 8,000 Israelis from their homes in Gaza ��an act of monumental political folly�� citing the way Arabs interpret such actions as weakness and an invitation to attack. Can Palestinians create a civil, secular and legitimate government that will forsake terrorism as their raison d��etre? At best, Hamas and other terrorist groups have agreed only to stop killing Israelis for the rest of the year. Sporadic attacks continue. Will the fence that divides them from Israel have to remain in place for decades to come?

Even now, the Israelis are anticipating a renewed Palestinian offensive in the fall of 2005. Their military anticipates that fighting will begin as early as September 2005 when the Israeli army withdraws from the Gaza Strip and the northern West Bank.

The Israelis want peace with the Palestinians. The United States has striven through successive administrations to resolve the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. It is a bold gamble, but one filled with risk. We shall now watch as the Israelis again roll the dice again to see if peace is achievable. To this observer, the answer remains no.
http://www.webcommentary.com/asp/ShowArticle.asp?id=carubaa&date=050418

Israel: a tiny country of 4 million people surrounded on all sides by millions of arabs covering a vast geographical area, all hellbent on destroying it.

[Bulsajo]

[Bulsajo]

Like it or not, Hamas has become a part of the political landscape for the foreseeable future. Here's an interview with their current leader, FWIW:

[bigverne]

[Nowhere Man]

Chewbacca quotes the Koran...

Now that we're done with that, Israel really doesn't have a leg to stand on until they abandon the Occupied Territory.

Let's say California invaded Tijuana. Tijuanans keep attacking California until they abandon Tijuana.

Labeling someone a terrorist is deteriorating daily. In my version of history, the term "terrorism" came into place during the 80's. By the way it's being applied now, we lost Saigon to the terrorists...

[bigverne]

[Summer Wine]