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People Leaving Korea. Hub of Asia?
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Real Reality



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:02 am    Post subject: People Leaving Korea. Hub of Asia? Reply with quote

People Leaving Korea Outnumber Arrivals
Including foreigners, the number of people who left the country for a long-term stay stood at 483,000. They outnumbered Koreans and foreigners who came to stay -- 444,000 -- reducing the population by 39,000. Most went to the U.S., which drew 26.6 percent or 89,000, followed by China (19.6 percent), Japan (12.0 percent), Canada (8.7 percent), and Australia (5.5 percent).
Chosun Ilbo (September 22, 2005)
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200509/200509220019.html
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weatherman



Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

THe key here is long terms stays. People aren't immigrating these days in the numbers that they used too. That is a good thing, but with a more interconnected world, people do make long term stays. I would say that 98% of us ESLers are in this number. But it is also an economic thing too, those heading out long term from Korea to overseas, have some means back in the homeland.
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Neil



Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Tokyo

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't net immigration be good for foreigners as it would mean they would rely on incoming labour more?
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Cymro



Joined: 11 Jun 2004

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These figures don't add up! (Do they ever?!)

483,000 left. 26.6% (89,000) were "drawn" to the US?

26% is over a quarter, so should be about 121,000, right?
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:19 pm    Post subject: Re: People Leaving Korea. Hub of Asia? Reply with quote

We get it. Korea wants to be the hub of Asia but it has a long way to go. Right. Keep beating that dead horse, RR. Because preaching to a bunch of converted low status foreigners is going to affect change...
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billybrobby



Joined: 09 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

who's sock is RR? i'm guessing rapier. he seems bitter enough.


swiss james really riled him up with that hub of asia stuff. haha. poor RR had worked so hard to mock that sentiment and then somebody comes and says "hey, it's not entirely untrue."
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Swiss James



Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Location: Shanghai

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How anyone can read a report about Koreans going abroad to sightsee or study and then say
"See! I told you Korea isn't a regional hub!!"
is totally beyond me.

If he wanted to beat that particular dead horse I think this article would have done a much better job

Korea Rated Least Likely Asian Financial Hub
But then that would involve understanding the concept of a "hub"
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lastat06513



Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Location: Sensus amo Caesar , etiamnunc victus amo uni plebian

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hub= the center of something.
Hubcap= the center of a wheel on a vehicle.

Korea= Hubcap

The more Korea strives to be the "hub" of something, the more it fails. They are trying to improve infrastructure and facilities while introducing better technology. Thats good and all....but...

The one thing Korea lacks is the people skills to welcome foreigners into the country. The society here is too afraid that they would lose their identity if too many foreigners come and open up shop here.

That's why places like Singapore, Hong Kong and Shanghai all did better, they were willing to open their doors to the international community to make them more competitive, while Korea is afraid of competitiveness.
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Swiss James



Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Location: Shanghai

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah but geographically Korea is superior in a lot of ways, the air connections are better, you can easily get stuff shipped in by sea from both Japan and China, the government provides a lot of tax breaks to encourage trade etc.

Speaking from the perspective of someone who actually came to Korea as a businessman- I found Koreans incredibly welcoming. All of my co-workers who come here are blown away by the hospitality (the problems come later..)

The level of english spoken here is definitely higher than in Shanghai- haven't done business there yet, but I'm told by colleagues it's all about secret meetings in the backrooms of tea houses- our english company got precisely nowhere in China until we employed someone who was an expert in the wheeling and dealing that goes on there (the Korean contract was much more straightforward).

Singapore and Hong Kong? No clue- maybe you've tried to set up businesses there?
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lastat06513 wrote:
Hub= the center of something.
Hubcap= the center of a wheel on a vehicle.

Korea= Hubcap



Hey, you're stealing Jongnoguru's material!
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nrvs



Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Location: standing upright on a curve

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea of Korea surpassing Singapore or Hong Kong as an Asian center for international business is absolutely laughable.

Swiss James wrote:
the air connections are better,

Singapore and Hong Kong are far more important as air hubs. Both are in the top 10 (measured by international passenger traffic). Incheon isn't even on the list. Measured by all passenger traffic, Hong Kong and Singapore are in the top 30 -- and Singapore doesn't have any domestic flights! Again, where's Incheon? Not there. They weren't on the list in 2003 or 2002 either. Even Philadelphia was 30th in 2004, and trust me, Philadelphia is only a hub of cheesesteaks.

Even if you ignore the statistics, just about everyone I've ever talked to has agreed that Changi Airport is the best airport they've ever been to. It's the main stopover for flights from Australia, New Zealand, India, other points in Southeast Asia, and Europe, so lots of folks know it well. Hong Kong is pretty much on the same level, only a bit further north.

Swiss James wrote:
you can easily get stuff shipped in by sea from both Japan and China,

Hong Kong is the world's busiest container port, and Singapore is number two. Busan is fifth, which isn't too shabby, but Hong Kong and Singapore have the capacity for TWICE as many containers per year as Busan. They've both overshot Busan by 10 million containers. Singapore's pretty close to China -- and Hong Kong is China. Both are only a few days away from Japan. Besides, with the low cost of container shipping these days it doesn't really matter where products are shipped from anyway. Only the efficiency and capacity of the ports matter -- and Hong Kong and Singapore have got Busan beat.

Swiss James wrote:
the government provides a lot of tax breaks to encourage trade etc.

It seems like you're grasping at straws here. Tax breaks to encourage trade? Are you talking about the same country that has raised import tariffs to such sky-high levels that you can pay W4,000 for a single apple in the winter? That almost all of the cars you see on the road are Korean makes? Do you think for a second that Koreans would prefer Korean cars if imports were given equitable consumer pricing?

Swiss James wrote:
The level of english spoken here is definitely higher than in Shanghai

...but what about Singapore or Hong Kong? It will be decades before Korea comes even close to the near-fluent English language ability of Singapore. Sure, Hong Kong isn't as good as Singapore, but their level is still way, way higher than Korea's.

Swiss James wrote:
Speaking from the perspective of someone who actually came to Korea as a businessman

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're an English employee of an English company doing professional contract work in Korea, getting paid a Sterling salary. Basically, an expat with an expat's safety net, right? Your situation is a lot different than navigating the Korean employment, entrepreneurial, or direct investment landscape on one's own.
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komtengi



Joined: 30 Sep 2003
Location: Slummin it up in Haebangchon

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

but Incheon has a rather large cargo traffic, even if the passengers are low
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nrvs



Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Location: standing upright on a curve

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

komtengi wrote:
but Incheon has a rather large cargo traffic, even if the passengers are low

Sorry, I forgot to address this. Yes, it's true, but Hong Kong's still ahead by a million metric tons per year. Singapore trails Incheon by only 340,000.
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jg



Joined: 27 May 2003

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swiss James wrote:
Quote:
The level of english spoken here is definitely higher than in Shanghai- haven't done business there yet, but I'm told by colleagues it's all about secret meetings in the backrooms of tea houses


By watching lots of Hollywood movies - or taking one experience in a short time frame and using it as the rule - might deduce that tea houses were the site of "secret meetings"... by men with razor sharp kung fu moves...or maybe did I miss some attempt at humor? perhaps a more reasonable guess would be restaurants, KTVs and the ubiquitous Starbucks around town. Or even, say, offices? When Starbucks first opened, it was a place to find foreigners and overseas Chinese. Lately its as full of locals as any tea house, which are becoming a thing of the past here in Shanghai.

Shanghai now has the highest concentration of Japanese outside of Tokyo, and I would imagine that its pretty high on the list for the number of Koreans outside of Seoul, too. Guangxi might be a b*tch to deal with here but methinks the "hub of Asia" moniker is more likely an axis between several cities, Seoul and Shanghai being chief among them.

I don't know much about the level of English in Seoul, but Shanghai is pretty impressive. Public English corners are everywhere, jam packed, and the Chinese college students here have a superior command compared to the Korean college kids I meet on campus - perhaps not representative of the larger body of Korean students. How do you qualify "definitely higher?" Unfortunately my time in Seoul was short and I didn't interact with many besides my host and co., so I am curious about this too.
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JongnoGuru



Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mindmetoo wrote:
lastat06513 wrote:
Hub= the center of something.
Hubcap= the center of a wheel on a vehicle.

Korea= Hubcap



Hey, you're stealing Jongnoguru's material!

That sucks! I forgot to copyright it! Evil or Very Mad
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