Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Summer Wine]

I was asked by my boss whether I felt that it was good to teach the following to middle school students.

Present tense,
Finished Present tense,
ongoing present tense

and a few others that I can't remember just now. My feeling is that it probably won't hurt them as we learn to use these types of tenses when we are young and use them, though are not always taught the rules regarding them until later. I feel that teaching them is probably not useless as long as it is not totally demanded that they have to understand them now and the rules applying to them right now, but understand that they may grow into understanding them when they are retaught them at a later date. But allowing them to be used, taught etc, is just an ongoing process of english learning.

What do you think?

[baldrick]

Do you mean the present continuous and the present perfect?
Grammer structures are so important in learning english and sometimes they can be taught structually as 'grammer' but that quickly gets boring for the students. They should be aware of the grammer they are studying and then have it modelled in the content of the lesson i.e. hearing it in listening exercises, speaking it in dialogues etc etc......
It could be a nightmare however. To use the present prefect a student needs to know past participles..........do they??

[Yu_Bum_suk]

[ilovebdt]

Talking of grammar. Can anyone recommend a good grammar book. In all my years of teaching I haven't taught that much grammar, so would like to refresh my memory

[plattwaz]

Although I can't fully make sense of the OP, my initial understanding leads me to this --

You shouldn't teach them verb tenses in a grammar class simply for the sake of it. If the students are at the level where they can understand present perfect and present continuous being taught to them by a native speaker, then yes, they should be introduced to the guidelines for using them. Usually the present continuous is taught after the students can correctly use the (simple) present tense and the simple past tense. At that point, most students should have gained enough fluency from reading and listening to actually be using the present continuous correctly some of the time - although they might not know there is a verb name for it. Introducing them to the fact that a name exists for this sentence structure and giving them a framework for creating it is no harm.

If your hagwan is using a decent cirriculum and program, then I would assume the grammar book (or grammar portion of the general book) would introduce these language points at the appropriate time.

RE: the best grammar book to get, as a teacher - definitely it's Martin Parrott's Grammar for English Language Teachers.

[joe_doufu]

Just remember some of us struggle with remembering all that crap when we're native speakers in grade school. I sure as heck can't remember the names of all the tenses, though of course I know how to use them. I think it's best to teach grammar by introducing a pattern and giving students various kinds of practice using it.

For example, you might first present the pattern

[Summer Wine]

Sorry, I didn't explain myself better. I was shown a book which had a list of tenses on it, then asked my opinion. I told him that I was never taught the rules regarding them until a certain age, which was older than the age group he was considering. Rules, not grammatically correct sentences, we all teach proper english grammar. We have too, korean grammar is different from english. We show them the way it works and help them to understand.

That being said, you should all know how hagwon desire these lessons to be taught. They will want the children to understand the rules and repeat them, use them precisely. I hoped to get across to my boss the idea that he could use the book (they probably already have them in boxes sitting there) but don't expect them to fully understand until they are older and can comprehend the rules.

Everyone knows, the way we think at 13 is different from the way we think at 23 or at 33. We sometimes come into a greater awareness of the rules when we are older that we didn't have when we were originally taught them at the age of 1 or 2 (by copying others way of speaking). We grow into understanding grammar, it is no more different than some of our students who use english words but use Korean grammar. We in our basic stages of learning a language do the same.

We only understand the rules at a later stage, this doesn't prevent us being taught the grammar even if we don't fully understand it. I could go on, but its late.

[baldrick]

Language aquisition of your first language is an incredible process and is a huge area of research for Linguisitcs, and I feel it is a fascinating subject. For the native speaker, grammer is programmed into us and language is a natural part of our being much like a reaction to heat or the urge to eat when hungry.........Aqusition of a second language however, means entering a world of GRAMMER pain......the process could not be much more painful, especially with all the little rules and exceptions we have in English........never underestimate how easy it is for us and how difficult it is for them
I also think its better for 2nd language learners to at least be aware of the grammer they are using the first time they learn it. Introducing grammer to students who have never studied it before will probably just lead to mass confusion and over a million ' then why.........', 'but teacher.......' questions - unless you have a lot of class time and serious students.

[xtchr]

Hi, feel free to flame away as I am about to correct another poster's spelling, because it's annoying me a great deal, and I am in a lousy mood this dreary Friday.

Baldrick; no offense, but please if you are going to post about grammar, can you spell it correctly, i.e grammAr

Thanks

[baldrick]

[rocklee]

The highlight of one teaching orientation that I had in China was when this American dude promised us that by the end of the lesson, we would fully understand the topic being discussed.

He began by writing on the board "English Grammy"...

[blunder1983]

I'm doing a grammar auction this week, having the students "buy" sentences and correct them. Its going really well and the kids are REALLY good at it (better than me or my co-teacher could have hoped for)

[baldrick]

[xtchr]