Korean Job Discussion Forums

red dog · Joined: 31 Oct 2004

Hi VanIslander, I'm not sure I get your point here. People may feel as if they "need" meat or other animal products, but then again, a lot of people feel as if they need tobacco, alcohol, caffeine, and many other things that aren't healthy. The weight of evidence indicates that humans do best on a plant-based diet, so we really don't need to get into arguments about what other animals do or don't do. The fact is that we're capable of nourishing ourselves with foods from the plant kingdom, and it's a healthier and less violent choice. Supposed "reasons" to choose animal foods really still come down to taste and habit.

Rteacher · Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA

Many people were surprised at the high-energy Super Bowl half-time performance put on by relative "old-timer", Prince ...

Maybe it has to do with his being vegetarian (and religious...)

He was also voted 2006's "Sexiest Vegetarian of the Year" by PETA...

So, I'll go ahead and add his name to my "greatest ...vegetarians" list - and also the other two celebrity names mentioned in this newsbrief:

Prince has been voted the "world's sexiest vegetarian" by PETA. In addition to being a vegetarian, Prince has written about the problems behind wool production. Sexy! Last year, Coldplay singer Chris Martin and "American Idol" Carrie Underwood won
http://www.netscape.com/tag/vegetarian/rss

luvnpeas · Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject:

Rteacher · Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA

Usually, it's reported that Hitler was forced to become vegetarian for health reasons. This article gives another motivation:

The couple lived together for over two years. The relationship with Geli was stormy and they began to accuse each other of being unfaithful. Geli was particularly concerned about Eva Braun, a seventeen-year-old girl who Hitler took for rides in his Mercedes car.

Geli also complained about the way Hitler controlled her life On September 8, 1931, Hitler left for Hamburg after having a blazing row with Geli over her desire to spend some time in Vienna. Hitler was heard to shout at Geli as he was about to get into his car: "For the last time, no!" After he left, Geli shot herself through the heart with a revolver.

When he heard the news, Hitler threatened to take his own life but was talked out of it by senior members of the Nazi Party. One consequence of Geli's suicide was that Hitler became a vegetarian. He claimed that meat now reminded him of Geli's corpse...

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERhitler.htm

Jennarator · Joined: 19 Nov 2006

This is hilarious. I've been reading up on Dave's ESL for about a month now, and I'll be in Seoul next week. I have determined that:
1) ANYTHING controversial on the forum will be stoned in the face.
2) No one may post something interesting just for the sake of open, positive communication surrounding its topic.
3) It must evoke a negative attitude from everyone, and finally
4) one is better off not posting on Dave's ESL, because the only people who respond have nothing better to do than argue with each other until they are blue in the face.

Do some of you really think you are going to convince the other you are right or they are wrong? Nonsense. I really hope Seoul isn't so boring I start channeling every pessimistic thought in my head onto a forum to share with others!

RTeacher - I admire your research and persistence throughout this thread, regardless of the impact it has made (or hasn't) Smile

Hi. I'm new here. Whatever happened to conversation?

endofthewor1d · Joined: 01 Apr 2003 Location: the end of the wor1d.

Rteacher · Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA

Hey, tell me that I don't look like a great thinker here:http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=78872

(Actually, I'm looking for someone to bump that thread, and at this point I don't care if it's just a post that insults my looks ...)

Bramble · Joined: 26 Jan 2007 Location: National treasures need homes

Gary Francione is a great thinker. Everyone who is interested in moral issues and social justice should read his work:

http://garyfrancione.blogspot.com/

Rteacher · Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA

He may be a great thinker in some respects, but to the degree that he propagates the idea that cows milk should be abolished from human consumption then his thinking - in my estimation - is not so good...

Aside from the Vedic viewpoint, even some Christian vegetarians who claim that Jesus advocated a "raw foods" diet, concede that he also drank "milk and honey"...

Since I accept that real religious/moral principles are established by the authority of God, I reject Francione's arbitrary demarcation of a "moral baseline" based exclusively on vegan principles...

In my view, the Vedic principle of a lacto-vegetarian diet for humans in general and agriculture based on cow protection should be the real moral baseline...

Without restating all the points I've made on the other current vegetarian thread, I'll just re-post this neat chart:

Although even in India, due to corrupiton of the original Vedic idea and western influence, cows face considerable mistreatment. However, total abstinence from all milk products would not be a viable solution. Cows have been domesticated for thousands of years, and their contribution to human society has always been milk. If there were no more demand for milk by humans there would eventually be no more cows (except maybe in some zoos...)http://www.mothercow.org/oxen/peta-letters.html
http://www.mothercow.org/oxen/comparing-diet.html

Bramble · Joined: 26 Jan 2007 Location: National treasures need homes

Rteacher · Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA

Hare Krishna and other Vedic-based model farms have successfully demonstrated cow protection and utilization of oxen...

It was demonstrated on a large scale in India for thousands of years. Even Muslim governments enforced laws prohibiting the slaughter of cows. It was the so-called Christian, beef-eating British who instigated them to slaughter animals in order to put a political wedge between them and Hindus...

Indian governments today are reviving laws prohibiting cow slaughter , and large groups of Jains dedicate themselves to sheltering older cows, bulls, and oxen...

Here are some excerpts from an article on cow protection in India:

The National Commission on Cattle, presided over by Justice GM Lodha, recently submitted its recommendations to the Union Government. The report, in 4 volumes, calls for stringent laws to protect cow and its progeny in the interest of India's rural economy....

Even Islamic scholars aver that Islam gives no compulsive directive for killing of cow either for religious or mundane purposes. The British shrewdly foisted this issue. They were beefeaters and had no compunctions about killing cows to meet their taste. To their pleasant surprise, they found they could co-opt the Muslims into that category and widen the latter's gulf with the Hindus...

Bahadur Shah 'Zafar', after regaining Delhi in 1857 for a brief interlude, made the killing of cow a capital offence. ... Akbar too completely forbade cow slaughter throughout his empire... We are also aware how in Maharaja Ranjit Singh's kingdom the only crime that had capital punishment was cow slaughter...

... In an agrarian country like India, bovine population was considered an asset and an index of prosperity. While cows yielded milk, oxen tilled in the fields or drew carts. India's voice has been one of peaceful co-existence with flora, fauna and rest of humankind. There was an inclination towards complete vegetarianism as reflected in Jainism and Buddhism. Since these philosophies put their faith in transmigration of soul, they desisted from animal slaughter since an animal was also a Buddha in the making. And cow was a mother-animal by every conceivable standard for them...

Serene by temperament, herbivorous by diet, the very appearance of a white cow evoked a sense of piety. Apart from milk, the excretion of cows too was never allowed to go waste. Cow dung, also known for its anti-septic value, is still used as fuel in its dried form. It is used in compost manure and even in the production of electricity through eco-friendly gobar-gas.

The Article 48 of the Constitution says: "The State shall endeavor or organise agriculture and animal husbandry on modern and scientific lines and shall, in particular, take steps for preserving and improving the breeds, and prohibiting the slaughter of cows and calves and other milch and draught cattle." In the 1950s, the Jana Sangh voiced the demand for cow protection as per Article 48 and Mahatma Gandhi's declaration: "Cow protection is more important than even Swaraj." ...

Agricultural is still the mainstay of India's economy - cow breeding and cow preservation are integral to it. 75 per cent of Indians live in villages and derive the greatest benefits from cows and bullocks... Even Albert Einstein, in a letter to Sir CV Raman, wrote: "Tell the people of India, that if they want to survive and show the world path to survive, then they should forget about tractor and preserve their ancient tradition of ploughing." ...
http://www.mothercow.org/oxen/cow-protection-sense.html

seoul_nhl · Joined: 18 Mar 2006

My theory is that they were either secretly canables in hiding or just always thinking about meat!

Rteacher · Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA

Let me check and see if "seoul_nhl" is on my list of "Great Vegetarian..." thinkers and celebrities ...

Jesus, Buddha, John the Baptist, Confucious, "Rteacher", Gandhi, Plato, Albert Einstein, Leonardo da Vinci, Thomas Edison, Benjamin Franklin, Issac Newton, Immanuel Kant, Voltaire, Albert Schweitzer, Socrates, Diogenes, Heroditus, Hesiod, George Bernard Shaw, Leo Tolstoy, Franz Kafka, William Shakespeare (with some lapses...) H.G. Wells, Mary and Percy Shelly, Mark Twain, Charlotte Bronte, Hans Christian Anderson, Louisa May Alcott, Henry David Thoreau, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Will and Ariel Durant, John Robbins, Peter Ha, Harriot Beecher Stowe, Jeremy Rifkin, Alice Walker, Stephen Clark, Berke Breathed, Allen Ginsberg, Susan B. Anthony, Chelsea Clinton, Dennis Kucinich, Caeser Chavez, Clara Barton (founder of Red Cross) Bill Ford (CEO), Steve Jobs, Michael Eisner, Robert Kennedy Jr., Dr. Benjamin Spock, "Red dog", Jane Goodall, Henry Heimlich (famous maneuverer) Adam Smith, Charles Darwin, Hitler, Russell Crowe, George Harrison, Paul McCartney, John and Julian Lennon, Ringo Star, John Cleese, Willem Dafoe, Cameron Diaz, David Duchovny, Michael J. Fox, Ed Asner, Dustin Hoffman, Richard Gere, Sir John Gielgud, Anthony Hopkins, Woody Harrelson, Toby Maguire, Sir Ian Mckellen, Ashley Judd, Hayley Mills, Demi Moore, Pamela Anderson, Paul Newman, Brad Pitt, Kim Basinger, Dennis Weaver, Alicia Silverstone, Kate Winslet, Reese Witherspoon, Mary Tyler Moore, Bob Barker, Milton Berle, Kevin Eubanks, Fred (Mr.)Rogers, Lisa Kudrow, Lisa Bonet, "Lisa Simpson", Danny DaVito, William Shatner, Peter Max, Joan Baez, John Cage, Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan, Carlos Santana, Bruce Springsteen, Michael Jackson, Grace Slick, Tina Turner, "The Smiths" Ray and Dav Davies (Kinks), Mick Jaggar, Alanis Morisette, Steve Perry (Journey), Eric Johnson, "Meatloaf", Whitney Houston, Chrissie Hynde (Pretenders), "Boston", Jeff Beck, Bryan Adams, Fiona Apple, "B-52's", Michael Bolton, Anne Lennox, Boy George, Bono, Kate Bush, Kurt Cobain, Peter Gabriel, India Arie, Joan Jet, Nelly, Pink, K.D. Laing, Bif Naked, "Rage Against the Machine", Joey Ramone, Stevie Nicks, Natalie Merchant, Nick Rhode (Duran Duran), Justin Timberlake, Shania Twain, Eddie Vedder, Vanessa Williams, Bob Weir, Ron Welty, Dwight Yoakum, a Weird Al Yancovic, "Bramble" , Chris Martin (Coldplay), Carrie Underwood (American Idol) - and Prince...

Nah - Sorry, you're not on there... Surprised

ChopChaeJoe · Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Location: Seoul

Vegetarianism is pretty cool. I've tried it, but never stuck to it.