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new horizons
Joined: 25 Jul 2004
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 Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 5:53 am Post subject: Sex v. Violence |
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| I was watching TV last night (Yeah, I know. I��m lame.) XTM had this show about sex in movies coming out of Hollywood over the past few decades. As an American it is a question that has come up time and time again when I am out with friends: What does the Motion Picture Association have against sex? The really weird thing is, why is it okay to have violent graphic scenes, but explicit love scenes are pornography? And, God forbid, you show a *beep*. |
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coldcrush
Joined: 02 Apr 2004
Location: melbourne.... Posts: 1
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:26 am Post subject: Re: Sex v. Violence |
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| new horizons wrote: |
| The really weird thing is, why is it okay to have violent graphic scenes, but explicit love scenes are pornography? |
Violence is simulated. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| Prudery? I think it's that the Puritans left England and didn't have anyone to squelch them in the crowd. (And yes I know the Puritans weren't as puritanical as their reputation.) Go figure. |
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tommynomad
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Location: on the move
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Sex v. Violence |
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| coldcrush wrote: |
| new horizons wrote: |
| The really weird thing is, why is it okay to have violent graphic scenes, but explicit love scenes are pornography? |
Violence is simulated. |
So's the sex.
AFAIK, the only movie to show actual sex between the co-stars was that Vincent Gallo debacle from a couple years back.
And the answer is puritanism.
How can it be ok to do something, ok to take a picture of it, but not ok to show someone that picture? |
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new horizons
Joined: 25 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2005 8:29 pm Post subject: Victorians v. Puritans |
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I dunno. I think it is less the Puritans than the Victorians. As much as we talk about the Puritans their time was very brief and their influence was not that strong back in the day. Also, Puritans were okay with sex within the confines of marriage. More importantly, they believed that the enjoyment of sex by both the husband and wife was important.
The Victorians, on the other hand, seemed to see sex as something dirty and sinful. A woman who enjoyed sex was considered low. Having fun with sex is something women, particularly middle and upper class women, were not supposed to do. Middle and upper class men were only allowed enjoyment during discreet encounters with their mistresses. If a Victorian man did discover that his wife was hot in bed he would probably have been appalled.
The mores of the Victorian era lasted well into the Edwardian era which covers a long span of fairly recent American history. So I get that America has a history of discomfort when it comes to sex. But after that we had the Roaring Twenties, the Free Love sixties, and the sexually frank seventies. Even now we��ve got porn all over the place. It��s just weird that some sex is allowed in raunchy comedies or horror flicks, but God forbid someone make a movie about adults in mature sexual relationships.
And why is the MPA so comfortable with violence, especially sexual violence? Why is it not okay to make love to someone, but okay to rape them? And what is so frightening about male sexuality? It seems the one thing guaranteed to get a NC-17 rating is showing male genitalia not being used as a weapon. |
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sillywilly
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Canada.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 10:49 am Post subject: |
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Sex is something horrible, disghusting and degrading that you save for the one you love.  I don't get it either. I used to say that I'd have no problem with showing my kids depictions of sex in popular media( not talking porn) because I would be a hypocrate if I otherwise let them watch violence. But I must confess that I've become a hypocrate. Society has brainwashed me. If I'm watching sex and the city or q as folk and my son comes into the room then I turn it off.
One big aspect of watching tv with other people and in this case I'm talking adults, is our reaction to sex versus violence. I mean I feel a lot more comfortable cheering on someone getting blown up in an action movie then I do squirming in my seat when a sex scene comes on. I always feel like my friends are wondering what I'm thinking. |
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magicwolfman
Joined: 01 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| I hope that this post was in jest. I am a bit sickened that you would even imply that it is ok for children to watch any depiction of sex on TV. Your children will have psychological distress for years to come. |
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coldcrush
Joined: 02 Apr 2004
Location: melbourne.... Posts: 1
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Sex v. Violence |
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| tommynomad wrote: |
| coldcrush wrote: |
Violence is simulated. |
So's the sex. |
We must watch different types of film. My bad. |
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numazawa
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: The Concrete Barnyard
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 10:21 pm Post subject: Re: Sex v. Violence |
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| coldcrush wrote: |
| tommynomad wrote: |
| coldcrush wrote: |
Violence is simulated. |
So's the sex. |
We must watch different types of film. My bad. |
Either that or the special effects are getting way out of hand these days. |
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tommynomad
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Location: on the move
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| Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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At the risk of falling for a joke I missed:
Name one mainstream hollywood movie that has shown real sex.
Why anyone would not want their kids to see natural, honest depictions of sexuality is beyond me. The only things scarring about it are the unnaturalness of the depictions currently out there, and the reaction to those depictions from people who are afraid of love, their bodies, and the moment those two come together. If we handle it like mature, sensible adults, our kids--wow--might come to see sex as a natural aspect of human relationships, instead of as some freakish bugaboo to be equally feared, desired, and shamed.
Our heebee-jeebie reaction to onscreen depictions of sex is an indictment of how we were raised to perceive sex itself. Maybe we should stop tittering, flipping the channel, and hemming and hawing. Instead we could grow up a little we can teach the next generation a little better than our parents taught us. I think we owe it to them. |
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red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| tommynomad wrote: |
At the risk of falling for a joke I missed:
Name one mainstream hollywood movie that has shown real sex.
Why anyone would not want their kids to see natural, honest depictions of sexuality is beyond me. The only things scarring about it are the unnaturalness of the depictions currently out there, and the reaction to those depictions from people who are afraid of love, their bodies, and the moment those two come together. If we handle it like mature, sensible adults, our kids--wow--might come to see sex as a natural aspect of human relationships, instead of as some freakish bugaboo to be equally feared, desired, and shamed.
Our heebee-jeebie reaction to onscreen depictions of sex is an indictment of how we were raised to perceive sex itself. Maybe we should stop tittering, flipping the channel, and hemming and hawing. Instead we could grow up a little we can teach the next generation a little better than our parents taught us. I think we owe it to them. |
Tend to disagree -- but I also think many of the TV programs and movies out there just aren't suitable for kids. Not just the ones that show graphic sex and violence, but the ones that deal with mature content that children aren't prepared to deal with. I shudder to think about kids watching the coverage of Hurricane Katrina -- I know I was always terrified when I was subjected to reports of natural disasters as a child. I was also allowed to watch horror movies and the movie Audrey Rose, which dealt with reincarnation, at way too young an age.
Did anyone out there follow that Margo/James/Barbara storyline on As the World Turns ages and ages ago? It was back in the late 70s or early 80s, and James was having an affair with Margo while he was married to Barbara. James was also a criminal -- the leader of some sort of drug ring, I think? -- and slapped Barbara around at least once that I can remember. I remember my mother referring to James in glowing terms as a "prince." (But it turned out that he was switched at birth and Barbara's new love, Gunner - sp.? - was the true heir to the Stenbeck fortune.) The actress who played Margo spoke with a bit of a lisp and my sister and I used to try to imitate the way she pronounced the name "James-sss." (Hard to demonstrate here.)
Point is, there are better ways for kids to spend their time. I think the Simpsons is a great show for adults, but I doubt kids get much out of it and don't think they should be exposed to it until they've had a chance to grow up and learn about life from sources other than TV. I think that goes for most of the crap on the air these days. |
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tommynomad
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Location: on the move
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:15 am Post subject: |
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| red dog wrote: |
| but I also think many of the TV programs and movies out there just aren't suitable for kids. Not just the ones that show graphic sex and violence |
I have seen thousands of hours of graphic violence on TV, both real and simulated. I have never, to my recollection, seen graphic sex. Please enlighten me as to where one might see this.
We are (by and large) sexophobes. We can choose whether or not to give our kids the same ridiculous, detrimental hang-ups. |
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sillywilly
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Canada.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| magicwolfman wrote: |
| I hope that this post was in jest. I am a bit sickened that you would even imply that it is ok for children to watch any depiction of sex on TV. Your children will have psychological distress for years to come. |
No it wasn't in jest. I think its important to be honest with children. I wouldn't want my son to watch this stuff alone; I should be there to discuss it with him. So many people have these screwed up shame-ridden feelings about sex and I think thats unfortunate. Like I said, my ideas have changed and I now feel uncomfortable with his seeing certain things at this age. Examples would be, like I said, sex and the city and q as folk. I think in some of those types of shows, relationships are too complex for him to understand and I don't like the examples they present if he doesn't understand the contexts. Not to mention hes getting to an age where hes aware of the differences btwn the sexes and I don't want him to think nudity and touching are the norm or socially acceptable. Porn, on the other hand, is absolutely innapropriate because its only purpose is sexual gratification and stimulation. It teaches nothing of value about relationships, love, women, men and protection. So I want to be clear about that. Thoough I think its important to have children learn about sexuality, in no way do I think porn and kids should mix. But without frank conversations and without his being exopsed to the notion that sex and relationships exist there is no way hes going to grow up as a functioning member of society. A great number of people who grow up sheltered end up confused and often make dangerous mistakes as a result. They can also have crippling sexual handicaps that can negatively affect their relationships. Lets be frank, wouldn't you rather be there watching tv and talking with your kid than having him or her ask questions to school chums or to have him or her, in a desperate attempt to satisfy curiousity, do a google search on the subject? |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| magicwolfman wrote: |
| I hope that this post was in jest. I am a bit sickened that you would even imply that it is ok for children to watch any depiction of sex on TV. Your children will have psychological distress for years to come. |
One has to wonder about your upbringing, that you think this schtik you've been schlepping is entertaining.
Is that really the best you can do?
I think you owe it to yourself to to try harder. |
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red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2005 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| tommynomad wrote: |
| red dog wrote: |
| but I also think many of the TV programs and movies out there just aren't suitable for kids. Not just the ones that show graphic sex and violence |
I have seen thousands of hours of graphic violence on TV, both real and simulated. I have never, to my recollection, seen graphic sex. Please enlighten me as to where one might see this.
We are (by and large) sexophobes. We can choose whether or not to give our kids the same ridiculous, detrimental hang-ups. |
Well, IMO shows like Sex and the City and Queer as Folk show too much and would not be appropriate for kids, as Sillywilly said. She made some good points -- however, I would go further and say that a lot of the TV programs out there deal with mature subject matter and also aren't appropriate until the child reaches a certain age. |
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