Korean Job Discussion Forums

[lastat06513]

I don't think this has been discussed yet...I could be wrong since I haven't done a search on it...but here it goes....

As you all might have guessed, Korea is an ultra-nationalist and ultra-conservative society that places great value on conformity. If a person can show that they can contribute and become an unquestioning member of the great "Korean Collective", then they could be easily accepted into the culture.
This can be accomplished in many ways, through having a good job (by that, I mean "non-teaching" businessman), marrying a local or knowing the right people.
But being from "the west", we are taught that great value is placed on a person's individuality and how that uniqueness can be of some value in our home countries.
The sad part is that the average Korean tend to view this unique trait as a threat to their way of life in that they fear we will teach Korean students to be individuals rather than being a cog in the "Great Korean Industrial Wheel".
They view it as a destructive force that can do away with their culture and their identity, 2 things they fought hard to keep intact.

I mean, they want to emmulate us in fashion and in material goods, but fight tooth and nail to keep the conformist wheel greased and running.

I think this is one of the reasons why some Koreans distrust us, our failure to conform to their society.

I think anyone who has heard a Korean person say to them; You are Korea, you should do as Koreans do...

I know it would be hard for a foreigner to hear and follow.

But what is your take on the issue?

[the_beaver]

Outside of areas affected by extreme nationalism I don't see much of a difference between the conformity level of Koreans and westerners.

We're all in a flock of sheep (the average expat exempt).

[winnie]

They are overusing the "when in Rome" thing way too much....must have been on an English learning show or some crap.......

But do they follow that when they are abroad? Haha.

To that I laugh.....I am so tired of this place sometimes.


Korea=monoculture from hell

[forgesteel]

I wonder where you are getting your information from. How long have you been here? I am situated in a small town (of about 100,000), and while somewhat conservative, people are still quite individualistic.

Things have changed radically in South Korea. 50-60 years ago, your claim would've made a hellova lot more sense. Today, it doesn't.

If you make your claims a bit less extravagent, they will carry more force. Yes, Koreans are a bit more Communitarian than the average big city Californian, Texan, or New Yawker who likes to distinguish himself from the crowd either through his dress, his manner, his reading list, or whatnot. Sometimes, Koreans take this virtue to an extreme, but things have been changing for awhile now. Observe their manner of dress for instance: it is not gray and drab like much of Communist China. Koreans like many bright colors, many patterns, many fabrics, etc. This one easily observable fact alone really flies in the face of your central claims.

And then you really ought to question some of your assumptions about what actually comprises 'individuality.' In the West (yes, we capitalize this word), people might like to distinguish themselves in small ways, but rarely do people find themselves truly trailblazing on a 'road less travelled.' In Western science, Western arts, and all fields I am aware of, there are extraordinary pressures to conform, to not rock the boat, etc.

If you can give examples of conforming (done by Koreans), it will make your argument clearer and stronger.

Cheers,

[Ya-ta Boy]

I agree that the OP is too extreme. Everyone everywhere both conforms and is an individual at the same time. They should be viewed on a continuum, not as polar opposites. I would agree that Korea places greater outward emphasis on conformity in certain situations. How can you be more conformist than corporate dress codes in the West? Wrong pattern tie--no promotion for you.

When I first came here I learned a good technique for separating culture from individual views. Ask the same question to three different people and compare answers. When you get identical answers you are dealing with a culturally imposed view. When you get similar answers you can begin to see the personality of the individuals involved.

There is also a great deal of deviance from the public expressions of culture. I'll never forget when a friend told me why his grandfather died. He had three sons. Two of them were pretty successful. The third (my friend's dad) was a taxi driver. The grandfather got sick and needed surgery. The two sons with money refused to pay for the surgery. The old man died. So much for filial piety being universally followed. When you get to know Koreans personally, you begin to see the divergence between the ideal and the real. Not so different really from the Christian West.

[joe_doufu]

Korea is that way because of natural selection. If they had been less conservative and absurd, they would surely have blended with the rest of China thousands of years ago. Only as crazy people could their "Korean" culture survive. Kimchi is the glue that kept this house from crumbling. It's the same way with the Jews, who by all historical logic should have blended into other cultures millennia ago, but who have an incredible cultural imperative to marry within the religion and keep their identity alive.

[BigBlackEquus]

Do you ever wonder that the reason Korea has been conquered by their neighbors, and occupied time and time again, is because they are so darned hard-headed, stubborn, jingoistically nationalistic, and xenophobic that any nation dealing with them, throughout history, has just thrown their hands up in the air and said, 'that's it, let's just MAKE the uncompromising little cheater F$#*s do what we want!'

?

[lastat06513]

I know conformity is a way of life here, but I think that in this age in time that individual ideas would be valued more than the collective spirit that still dominates Korean social pattern.
Fashion is only one of the few ways Koreans could express themselves individually. But even that could be disputed; If Ms. A walks around wearing a pair of cowboy boots while sporting a mini skirt and her friends do the same thing, other women who see this would start wearing the same thing.
Another one; If someone sits next to a foreigner and the foreigners starts talking to them, rather than respond they would just wave them away to avoid other people observing them speaking English.
I am saying that society still dictates how people act and interact with each other and with others.
Yet another (and sad one); In most Korean companies, the women office workers are the ones who pour the coffee and serve it, cook and wash dishes after lunch and during dinner meetings, they act as the serving staff for the male coworkers.
I know most Korean women hate that kind of actions, but being this is Korea, they have to option but to "suck it up"....sad.
And another one that affects men; Military Service.
The conscription system has been in place for so long that most men aren't considered "real men" or "real members of society" until they do their military service. Lets just say that if Mr. Kim's son doesn't want to do military service and found a loophole through the system, he still has to face the opinions of people who view him unfavorably because he didn't do military service.

I am not being extreme, I just want to point out that maybe it could be their fear of individuality that might stop progress here.

[On the other hand]

[lastat06513]

[Privateer]

It's really like you're in the army here isn't it? In Korean society your life is not your own.

[joe_doufu]