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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:24 pm Post subject: Right Wing Christian Terrorists |
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9/11 aside, your run-of-the-mill American has a greater chance of being killed by domestic Christian hate group/Identity terrorists than by Arab terrorists. For example, you're much more at risk of being the target of Christian hate groups if you're working in an abortion clinic or in a building housing an abortion clinic, working in a gay bar, hanging out in a city park before an Olympics, being in public with a person not of your "race", you're a judge who makes Identity Christians pay their property taxes and parking tickets...
Klansmen, Identity Christians, and neo-Nazis are committing acts of violence and domestic terrorism regularly in America. And yet where's the dialog? Where's the presidential push to protect Americans from the extreme, racist Christian right?
Oh, wait, those are his constituents...
Oddly enough, the only domestic terrorist group that gets any government press is the equally dangerous/crazy albeit LEFTIST Earth First aholes. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:53 am Post subject: |
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True. A terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist.
There is no difference between someone who kills for the sake of Christianity than someone who kills for Islam.
But, I think you are exaggerating, if not mistaken, when you say that the only domestic terrorists that get government coverage are the leftist ones. The right-wing groups get more because there are more of them. However, considering that most of the coverage initiated by the government concerns some sort of business dilemma a reason could be that most of the leftist organizations target businesses that have some bearing on mainstream America.
Blowing up an abortion clinic or shooting up a gay bar doesn't affect Joe Blow of Butte, Montana as much as stopping a logging project or disrupting an oil supply.
Nevertheless, people will se what they want to see. most Christian zealots don't want to see themselves as the same as Islamic zealots... |
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dulouz
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Uranus
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Klansmen, Identity Christians, and neo-Nazis are committing acts of violence and domestic terrorism regularly in America. And yet where's the dialog? Where's the presidential push to protect Americans from the extreme, racist Christian right?
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I disagree with this assertion. I truly do. Most if its strength lies in its vaugeness and to top that off, you get the break where we are supposed to forget about 9-11, just to help you out. Do you have any credible statistics? No, its just a smash and grab. Throw in a accusation of racism concussion grenade and then go about looting peoples psyches.
I looked at the 2004 FBI hate crime statistics. The results are ambiguous. It seems Whites are underepresented and Blacks are over represented when we talk about the race of the offender.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2004/tables/HateCrime2004.pdf
You don't want to open this can of worms. White Americans are tired of Black and Hispanic violent crime against them. Its quite bad, you really don't want me to post those statistics, that'll make you look really bad. Hate crime or no, the level is far beyond excuse making or toleration.
You have to get past the MTV inspired thoughts of civil justice. For the sake of everyone, you need to do that. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:29 am Post subject: Re: Right Wing Christian Terrorists |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
9/11 aside, your run-of-the-mill American has a greater chance of being killed by domestic Christian hate group/Identity terrorists than by Arab terrorists. For example, you're much more at risk of being the target of Christian hate groups if you're working in an abortion clinic or in a building housing an abortion clinic, working in a gay bar, hanging out in a city park before an Olympics, being in public with a person not of your "race", you're a judge who makes Identity Christians pay their property taxes and parking tickets...
Klansmen, Identity Christians, and neo-Nazis are committing acts of violence and domestic terrorism regularly in America. And yet where's the dialog? Where's the presidential push to protect Americans from the extreme, racist Christian right?
Oh, wait, those are his constituents...
Oddly enough, the only domestic terrorist group that gets any government press is the equally dangerous/crazy albeit LEFTIST Earth First aholes. |
Placing Christians with Klansmen and neo-Nazis? Identity Christians? Ok, yeah, some Christians have done some nasty shite. I agree with that.
However Christians are the ones who are greatly persecuted throughout the world and it is becoming worse rather than better.
Today more than 200 million Christians around the world suffer imprisonment, abuse and even death because of their faith. Yet most Americans never hear their stories. In Their Blood Cries Out, Paul Marshall reveals the reality of this present-day persecution, revealing what we can do to help these brothers and sisters in Christ.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0849940206/greaterthingsboo/103-3075990-6806208
Christians today are the most persecuted religious group in the world, and persecution has intensified during the past few years. Torture, enslavement, rape, imprisonment, killings ... even crucifixions are among the atrocities perpetrated upon believers around the world, much of them stemming from two ideologies that prevail internationally: communism and militant, politicized Islam.
Throughout the world, thousands of Christians are being killed because of their faith. Yet, CNN and other major networks remain silent. It's one of the greatest crimes of the 21st century. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Throughout the world, thousands of Christians are being killed because of their faith. Yet, CNN and other major networks remain silent. |
Possibly one of the reasons why "CNN" remains silent about this is because, in most places, Christians aren't being persecuted qua Christians. Rather, Christians, along with many other groups, are being persecuted for failing to fall in line with some state ideology.
If you go around handing out Christian tracts on the streets of Riyadh in Saudi Arabia, you'll almost certainly get hauled off to prison. But you'll also get tossed in the clink for distributing gay rights pamphlets, copies of Playboy magazine, and essays defending Shiite Islam. So, looking at the Saudi human rights record in general, there doesn't seem to be any reason to single out Christians for any special sympathy.
But of course the persecution of Christians is just as despicable as the persecution of any other group in these countries. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:47 am Post subject: Re: Right Wing Christian Terrorists |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
Placing Christians with Klansmen and neo-Nazis? Identity Christians? |
Parse my text again. I'm speaking of known hate groups that identify themselves as being devout Christians and use their interpretation of the Bible to justify their killing. These groups are primarily the KKK, Identity Christians, and Neo-Nazis. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| dulouz wrote: |
| Most if its strength lies in its vagueness and to top that off, you get the break where we are supposed to forget about 9-11, just to help you out. |
Let's look at it this way, how many people were killed or injured in America in 2005 by Muslim terrorists? How many were killed or injured by members of an organized Christian hate groups?
Last edited by mindmetoo on Fri Feb 10, 2006 5:29 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:37 am Post subject: |
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What are "Identity Christians"?
And yeah, it doesn't seem very "love thy neighbourly" to be murdering abortion doctors. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:42 am Post subject: |
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mindmetoo,
You posed the questions, but what are the answers?
"How many people WERE killed on injured in America in 2005 by Muslim terrorists and by organized christian hate groups."
I'm guessing that the numbers for both groups are quite low. Zero maybe? Do you know the answers? |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
mindmetoo,
You posed the questions, but what are the answers?
"How many people WERE killed on injured in America in 2005 by Muslim terrorists and by organized christian hate groups."
I'm guessing that the numbers for both groups are quite low. Zero maybe? Do you know the answers? |
No, I heard of a few killings by Christians radicals in America (EDIT, in 2005). I not going to find them, but I did read them. There was also one KKK member killed during his initiation. At the end, they tied him up and put a gun to his head. They then shot a gun up in the air to scare him. Bullet came back down and killed the initiate. So the KKK did kill someone last year (small possibility the year before), just wasn't who they were intending to be the target.
Last edited by laogaiguk on Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:24 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| I'm not saying that there weren't any such killings. I just didn't hear about any in 2005. And, I have never personally thought of the KKK as a christian group. They do claim to be one, it just always seemed too stupid to be believed. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Throughout the world, thousands of Christians are being killed because of their faith. Yet, CNN and other major networks remain silent. |
Possibly one of the reasons why "CNN" remains silent about this is because, in most places, Christians aren't being persecuted qua Christians. Rather, Christians, along with many other groups, are being persecuted for failing to fall in line with some state ideology.
If you go around handing out Christian tracts on the streets of Riyadh in Saudi Arabia, you'll almost certainly get hauled off to prison. But you'll also get tossed in the clink for distributing gay rights pamphlets, copies of Playboy magazine, and essays defending Shiite Islam. So, looking at the Saudi human rights record in general, there doesn't seem to be any reason to single out Christians for any special sympathy.
But of course the persecution of Christians is just as despicable as the persecution of any other group in these countries. |
Ok, sure, but that's the power of freedom of speech. To be able to tell a message of hope. That is why they bring this message to such repressive countries in hope that they will open up to democracy and allow the freedom of rights. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:46 am Post subject: |
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What are "Identity Christians"?
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More-or-less a violent offshoot of British Israel, which teaches that the British are the true Jews(ie. the chosen people of God). But for all intents and purposes, I think they're pretty much indistinguishable from neo-Nazis. I think they're the ones who killed that radio talk show host back in the 80s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Order_%28group%29 |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: Right Wing Christian Terrorists |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
However Christians are the ones who are greatly persecuted throughout the world and it is becoming worse rather than better.
Today more than 200 million Christians around the world suffer imprisonment, abuse and even death because of their faith. Yet most Americans never hear their stories. In Their Blood Cries Out, Paul Marshall reveals the reality of this present-day persecution, revealing what we can do to help these brothers and sisters in Christ.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0849940206/greaterthingsboo/103-3075990-6806208
Christians today are the most persecuted religious group in the world, and persecution has intensified during the past few years. Torture, enslavement, rape, imprisonment, killings ... even crucifixions are among the atrocities perpetrated upon believers around the world, much of them stemming from two ideologies that prevail internationally: communism and militant, politicized Islam.
Throughout the world, thousands of Christians are being killed because of their faith. Yet, CNN and other major networks remain silent. It's one of the greatest crimes of the 21st century. |
Hindus say the same in India (seriously). Muslims say it all the time as well. "We're being persecuted! It's a crime against humanity! We're special!"
Eh yeah.. What it comes down to is people of every faith get persecuted. Spare me the "pity me" crap. |
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Teufelswacht
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Location: Land Of The Not Quite Right
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
mindmetoo,
You posed the questions, but what are the answers?
"How many people WERE killed on injured in America in 2005 by Muslim terrorists and by organized christian hate groups."
I'm guessing that the numbers for both groups are quite low. Zero maybe? Do you know the answers? |
How dare you ask for facts and other data to back up an assertion. Apparently you need to be schooled on how things work here on Daves ESL playground.
Oh, and I did do a cursory look concerning abortion related violence and believe the last abortion doctor was killed in 1998.
From Wiki:
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Because of the controversial nature of abortion in many countries, including the United States, pro-life advocates often protest abortion clinics through picketing, or other means such as holding vigils, although some have taken to more drastic means such as arson to prevent people from using these facilities. Over a fifteen year period there have been 167 attacks on abortion clinics of one form or another.
There have been a total of 8 people killed in anti-abortion attacks. These are:
* Dr. David Gunn
* Dr. George Patterson
* Dr. John Britton and James Barrett
* Shannon Lowney and Leanne Nichols
* Police Officer Robert Sanderson, killed by future Centennial Olympic bomber Eric Robert Rudolph
* Dr. Barnett Slepian
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_clinic |
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