Korean Job Discussion Forums

[benblex]

Finally got a job offer that I like. I need to give them the ok within 24 hours. I'm probably gonna take the job for sure, only because it's not a hagwon job where you have to teach students. While I wouldn't mind teaching, I like how this job fits my background better as a writer and editor. It's basically writing questions for standarized english tests.

It's supposed to be 9 a.m.-6 p.m. (1 hour lunch), Mon-Fri = 40 hours a week. My question, when hagwon jobs say 30 hours a week, are they only talking about "teaching hours?" In other words, your avg. English teacher will most definitely be WORKING more than 30 hours? If so, the 40 hour standard (no weekends) for this job seems reasonable.

According to my new supervisor/co-worker, the work environment is pretty laid back and people seem to be content. She's been there 6 months and has had much worse jobs in Korea. The company is huge and has a reputation for honoring contracts (paying on time, etc.) Unfortunately, according to her, there isn't much room for negotiation the terms. For example, when I asked her if there was room for advancement over time (i.e., raises after 6 months, more time off, etc.) she said, "Good question. I don't know. I'll have to ask about myself..." After offering me the position she told me if I have any questions or concerns about the contract or position I should bring them up now. Given the scarcity of non-teaching jobs like this out there and the fact that most of this job sounds decent, I'm hesitant to be too greedy and bring up a lot of objections. Still, what does everyone else think?

**IT'S A 2 YEAR CONTRACT** I do have an F-4 visa, which I'm assuming grants me more flexibility if I wanna quit in the future? The following are some details about the contract:

PAY and HOUSING: We're paid once a month. It ain't great: only 1.9 mil/month with a "housing allowance" of 300,000/month. They do offer key money for 10 mil though (Interest rates: 0.5% < year, 0.3% 1-2 years, 0% > 2 years), which I probably won't use since I'm considering staying where I've been that's a lot cheaper, albeit grungier. This is probably standard but the contract says if you move out or quit before your housing agreement is over, you have to pay any amount that's left.

OVERTIME: Rate of 1.5 times the hourly rate. "Total working time in excess of the regular requirement is calculated on a monthly basis."

MORE UNPAID STUFF: Trainings and workshops are mandatory and unpaid.

SEVERANCE: I THINK the following means I'll get severance for a full month's amount of pay after I finish the first year (1.9 mil)?: "Employee shall be due severance pay of 30 calendar days pay upon completion of every full year of employment. Failing to complete any full year of employment, Employee will receive no severance pay for that year. All severance payment is exclusive of housing allowance and taxes required by the Korean government. Payment, under this article, is made annually, regardless of whether Employee is resigning employment, within fourteen (14) days of Employee��s employment anniversary date."

MEDICAL INSURANCE: It's pretty vague. Does this mean the usual 50/50 or should I ask them to specify?: "Employee will be covered by medical benefits under the Korean Medical Insurance Union, a Government Health Organization. The costs of this coverage will be borne by Employer and by Employee under the Korean government regulations. Payment will be made by monthly deduction from Employee's salary and a like amount contributed by Employer."

TIME OFF: All holidays plus 10 paid vacation days a year (are sick days non-existent in most contracts? they don't appear here...)

PERSONAL LEAVE: "After completion of one year of the contract period, Employee is entitled to take a leave from duties for one pay period, up to one month. If taken, salary will not be paid for the leave period. Employer agrees to maintain payment of Employer's portion of medical insurance and to pay severance pay for the leave period. In cases where such leave is taken the expiration date of the contract will automatically be extended by one month. The working period during which the leave is taken is to be agreed to by Employer. Personal leave cannot be taken for the last month of employment."

EMERGENCY LEAVE: "Employee will be eligible to receive up to six (6) days of paid emergency leave in the event of death or serious illness in Employee's immediate family. Such emergency leave will be granted at the sole discretion of Employer."

DISMISSAL OR VOLUNTARY RESIGNATION: "Employer will have the right to dismiss Employee for unwillingness or inability to meet conditions of employment as set out under this Agreement, for conduct seriously jeopardizing any staff person, or for criminal activity.

In the event that Employee is dismissed, or in the event that Employee voluntarily resigns prior to the termination of the term of this Agreement, Employer will pay, as outlined in Paragraph 3.4 above, salary and severance due as of date of termination.

In the event that Employee voluntarily resigns, Employee shall give Employer one month��s written notice prior to the effective date of resignation.

In the event that Employee voluntarily resigns before the termination of the term of this Agreement, Employer will not issue a letter of release."

Ok Daveheads, holla your words of wisdom. I'm all ears!

[Ya-ta Boy]

It sounds like a reasonable deal.

Hakwon people who work 30 hours a week probably work 6 hours a day. Any prep work is in addition to that time and is unpaid.

I can only speculate, but my guess is there isn't any room for advancement or additional time off. It looks to me like you are a 'part-time worker' like the rest of us, so are not on the advancement track.

I'm sure the W10 million key money is one offer and the W300,000 housing subsidy is a separate choice. One or the other. If you keep on living where you are, then they will give you W300,000.

Overtime: note that it is figured monthly. So they can ask you to work 12 hours one day and let you go an hour early 4 other days and still not owe you overtime. That's how I read it.

Medical: It looks like the standard 50/50 deal to me.

Sick days: I think they are kind of a new deal here. You might want this specified before signing.

Note the NO LETTER OF RELEASE clause. Nothing much you can do about it, but it would worry me.

All in all, it seems like a reasonable deal for a non-teaching job.

[Tiger Beer]

[peppermint]

sounds decent and the medical insurance seems like it's on the up and up. Government insurance is generally 50/50, unless it specifically says otherwise.

One thing to be aware of. Severance pay is the average of the last 3 months pay ( including overtime, which could be significant for you)

[benblex]

thanks folks for the prompt replies. i really appreciate it.

guess i have the stamp of approval from most folks. yeah, it sounds like a reasonable deal.

ya-ta-boy, you said "Note the NO LETTER OF RELEASE clause. Nothing much you can do abou it, but it would worry me. " it says if i resign i won't get one. what does this mean exactly? what IS a letter of release?"

someone else mentioned that they have me as a part-time worker, hence, no room for advancement. even at 40 hours a week, i'm considered part-time? just cuz i'm not "korean?" i thought 40 hours a week, even in korea, is considered full-time.

lastly... since it seems like a decent gig, you guys suggesting i don't rock the boat too much when i reply about the terms... i shouldn't try to negotiate more, like a little more pay, etc? as much i hate to be a stickler to THE MAN i'm hesitant to push for too much. it IS a 2 year contract though... any thoughts on why they want me to be a slave for 2 instead of the standard 1 year gig?

btw - it's ybm sisa, if that helps at all.

[prairieboy]

If you have an F-4 visa then you wouldn't need a release letter. F-4's are for Kyopo's who basically have the same rights as a Korean when it concerns a job. E-2 visa holders need a release letter.

Cheers

[Ya-ta Boy]

I don't know the rules for an F-4.

But a Letter of Release (LOR) is a letter of permission saying that it is OK for an employee to leave and start a new job. Without it, the employee (ex-employee) cannot work for anyone else until the term of the visa expires.


Part time vs Full time:
This is hard to explain because I don't fully understand it myself. It is something like this: A company (or the government) decides how many full time employees it will have. These people get all the benefits--insurance, etc. Everyone else, while they work the same number of hours as a full time employee don't get the benefits. Maybe none of the benefits. No insurance. No severance. No nothing, as far as I can tell.

I think full and part time are bad translations. Permanent and short-term may be a more accurate translations.

There may be a relationship with who can be considered life-time employees with all the security and the nervous basket cases that everyone else is.

[benblex]

thanks for all the replies again folks...

LAST QUESTION: think i should try to negotiate for more or just accept the terms as is?

the girl DID SAY things were pretty much set in stone...

[peppermint]

see if you can negotiate a raise after the first year, if your performance is good.

[Mr. Pink]

F-4 visa, like the F-2 visa means people can't force you to stay where you don't want to.

having and F-4 means the place doesn't have to send you on a visa run, hence THEY save money.

1.9mil a month for 40hrs a week and that low vacation SUCKS. Sorry to say it, but you can make more back home at Walmart working 40hrs a week.

I'd push for more monthly salary. Also if you don't dig the job or find something better, DO NOT FEEL GUILTY LEAVING. So what if you signed a 2yr contract. The other thing about teaching, is when you leave, students are the ones who suffer. In an office job, if you leave, someone else is always ready to fill your shoes because they get it in their heads it is better than teaching.

[benblex]

peppermint thinks i should ask for a raise after a year, mr. pink thinks i should work at wal-mart back home

hmmm... mr. pink, i agree with you that the money is low for a 40-hour gig. unfortunately, i don't have any other viable option at the moment. i've been spending months just trying to find a teaching gig that didn't sound hellish. i really want an office job, even if it doesn't work out.

having said that, 300,000 housing and 1.9 mil is pretty damn low for 40 hours a week, even if it's supposedly a pretty set 9-5 (no weekends they say, etc.) i'm just a little hesitant because the co-worker/supervisor said things at ybm si-sa weren't very negotiable... then again, when i asked if she was up for a raise she said, "good question" because she had no clue. i figure she may have never taken the initiative to ask herself.

ultimately, it's my decision, but given the korean job landscape i'm still not sure what to do. push a bit, maybe even for 2 mil right now, or even a little more for housing at the risk of them thinking i'm a whiner, take back the offer, and i'm stuck finding only teaching gigs again? or am i too wussy to think they'd be such pricks to void their offer the minute i ask for a little more?

not sure...

[benblex]

i'm familiar with the "monster.com" version of salary negotiations... would it be the same here if i DO go that route?

the management, at least the one i'm immediately dealing with, is all "western." my immediate supervisor, the one i'd have to email with my response and any questions (i.e., salary disputes) is a gyopo while her boss, the guy who interviewed me, is a old white guy.

[Mr. Pink]

Here is another suggestion:

Take the job.

While you have that job, look for another job

Also do you speak Korean? Most Kyopos I have met don't speak much. If you speak Korean you could get a job in a Korean firm that pays HEAPS more. If you don't speak Korean, you got an F-4, start learning!!!