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Lack of parenting skills/discipline
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periwinkle



Joined: 08 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:36 pm    Post subject: Lack of parenting skills/discipline Reply with quote

Let me ask you this: if you had a kid, and you took your kid someplace public, would you let them scream and cry uncontrollably, and basically ignore it? Earlier this year I went to a dentist's office with my friend, and there was a 5 year old screaming like I have never heard anyone scream in my entire life (I used to work in a kindy, mind you). It was painful to listen to, and it made me so uncomfortable that I left the office and waited outside in the parking lot. I thought maybe he was having a tooth extracted, or he had had an accident. I felt bad for him, but I was irritated with the staff and his mother because they were so ineffective in dealing with him. I asked my friend what was wrong with him after we left, and he said simply, "Nothing. He was just scared." So help me God, I wanted to go back in there and throttle the mother, both for her utter lack of consideration for the others at the dentist's office, but for her failure to comfort and calm her child!

The same thing happened at the hair salon yesterday. A boy (too old for his first cut) screamed and cried for the 15 min. he was at the salon. His mother did nothing but occasionally sigh, "Araso... Araso..." in a tired voice. The staff did nothing except to quietly observe the situation, and the hairstylist didn't say a word of comfort to him, either (how about a,"Hey, buddy~ I'm not going to hurt you! It'll be over a few minutes, and if you quiet down and try to be brave for me, I'll give you a sticker.") I realize this is a different culture with different styles of parenting, but man- how someone can let their kid carry on like that (in public OR in private- because if the kid does it in public, I'm sure it's just as bad at home) is beyond me. Doesn't it occur to the parents that they are bothering other people?

My parents would never, ever stand for this behavior from my brother, sister, or I. We would've gotten a very stern, "Turn off the tears, and I mean business." If that didn't work, we were promptly marched outside of the establishment, and told that we were to remain in the parking lot (where it was usually frigidly cold, boiling hot, or pouring rain) until we calmed down. Then we would remain there (with one of our parents) for a few minutes in order to teach us a lesson. Thus, we acted-up (usually by getting too silly) very rarely.

I hope I'm not coming off as high-and-mighty, but after suffering through uncontrollable screeching for 15 minutes (I couldn't walk out of the salon because I was in the middle of a treatment), my patience was wearing thin.

Geez- talk about lack of situational awareness. I wonder what those mothers were thinking. I guess they weren't thinking.
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joe_doufu



Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Koreans see a child as a walking eating mutual fund. They don't give a crap about how it feels as long as the fund starts paying off before they retire.
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Yu_Bum_suk



Joined: 25 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joe_doufu wrote:
Koreans see a child as a walking eating mutual fund. They don't give a crap about how it feels as long as the fund starts paying off before they retire.


That's sort of the just of it, but I think it's even more of a pride thing than an actual monetary investment. But pride in different things. Not, oh look at what a good little citizen my kid is turning into, and see how polite he is. More like look, my kid goes to seven different hogwans and is going to go to SNU. Who cares what animals they act like when they're young so long as it's not interfering with their perceived educational needs?

Then they get to middle school and then it's time to start training some orderliness into them. Just remember, in Korea, everything is backwards.

...and Koreans wonder why people like me move away from the vicinity of small kids or refuse to work hogwan...
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Ekuboko



Joined: 22 Dec 2004
Location: ex-Gyeonggi

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Lack of parenting skills/discipline Reply with quote

periwinkle wrote:
Doesn't it occur to the parents that they are bothering other people?

Shocked Of course not. In Korea?? As if!

periwinkle wrote:
I hope I'm not coming off as high-and-mighty, but after suffering through uncontrollable screeching for 15 minutes (I couldn't walk out of the salon because I was in the middle of a treatment), my patience was wearing thin.

I totally know what you mean.

Over the last couple of weeks I have constantly been woken up by a toddler (not baby, and not kid, 'cos I don't hear it talk) screaming his head off in the middle of night. This family lives in the apartment upstairs and I swear I have never heard any screaming and crying like it. The parents seem to think by ignoring him he will shut up, but honestly, he screams blue murder for minutes and minutes on end.
This morning the mother had obviously had enough and started shouting at the kid, which didn't help to calm him down. I can't believe either her or the father don't do anything to comfort him. I am not sure if the child is slightly mentally-challenged, as his screaming and crying 'style' seems strange sometimes; or if he's having a load of nightmares....
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periwinkle



Joined: 08 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was at a co-worker's house awhile back, and he had a very short fuse. well, the baby started crying (about 9 months old or so- still crawling), and his response was to put her in another room and close the door. Shocked Good God, that won't "teach her to quit her whining"!
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Pangit



Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Location: Puet mo.

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have a child?
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ddeubel



Joined: 20 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Koreans see a child as a walking eating mutual fund. They don't give a crap about how it feels as long as the fund starts paying off before they retire.


Sorry but got to say this.....It is this kind of attitude; patronizing, "xenophobic", ethnocentric and "childish" - that makes we want to avoid so many who post here..... He, as well of the OP, should think before they post blanket statements. It only speaks of your own insecurity as expats and your lack of understanding regarding human and parental behaviour.

Screaming kids, bad parents happen all over the world. We see it more here in Korea for several reasons --- none having to do with them being unloving parents!!!!!! Please think before saying such crap. We see this more in Korea because 1) they are more tolerant of their kids and their behaviour in public (a nice change in my mind, letting kids do their thing) 2) most importantly, Korea is a very densely populated country. More chance of people being on top of each other and this thing being witnessed.

In no event are parents to just be off handedly lumped as uncaring and merely having kids as "future security". Still shaking my head........sick of too much of the lumping Koreans into unfeeling automatons....sick of too many lumping foreigners as just losers without a life....let's all step back and look at individuals. Only they can be judged, if at all.

DD

"even the heart is a little left of center." Northrope Frye
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Yu_Bum_suk



Joined: 25 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ddeubel wrote:
Quote:
Koreans see a child as a walking eating mutual fund. They don't give a crap about how it feels as long as the fund starts paying off before they retire.


Sorry but got to say this.....It is this kind of attitude; patronizing, "xenophobic", ethnocentric and "childish" - that makes we want to avoid so many who post here..... He, as well of the OP, should think before they post blanket statements. It only speaks of your own insecurity as expats and your lack of understanding regarding human and parental behaviour.

Screaming kids, bad parents happen all over the world. We see it more here in Korea for several reasons --- none having to do with them being unloving parents!!!!!! Please think before saying such crap. We see this more in Korea because 1) they are more tolerant of their kids and their behaviour in public (a nice change in my mind, letting kids do their thing) 2) most importantly, Korea is a very densely populated country. More chance of people being on top of each other and this thing being witnessed.

In no event are parents to just be off handedly lumped as uncaring and merely having kids as "future security". Still shaking my head........sick of too much of the lumping Koreans into unfeeling automatons....sick of too many lumping foreigners as just losers without a life....let's all step back and look at individuals. Only they can be judged, if at all.

DD

"even the heart is a little left of center." Northrope Frye


There are many parts of Europe that are just as densly populated where children are, on average, way more pleasant, polite, and well controlled; and they do this without hitting their kids the way most Korean parents do. There is something seriously fucked up about parenting in this country and unfortunately it's hard to avoid.
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fidel



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: North Shore NZ

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ddeubel wrote:
Quote:
Koreans see a child as a walking eating mutual fund. They don't give a crap about how it feels as long as the fund starts paying off before they retire.


Sorry but got to say this.....It is this kind of attitude; patronizing, "xenophobic", ethnocentric and "childish" - that makes we want to avoid so many who post here..... He, as well of the OP, should think before they post blanket statements. It only speaks of your own insecurity as expats and your lack of understanding regarding human and parental behaviour.

Screaming kids, bad parents happen all over the world. We see it more here in Korea for several reasons --- none having to do with them being unloving parents!!!!!! Please think before saying such crap. We see this more in Korea because 1) they are more tolerant of their kids and their behaviour in public (a nice change in my mind, letting kids do their thing) 2) most importantly, Korea is a very densely populated country. More chance of people being on top of each other and this thing being witnessed.

In no event are parents to just be off handedly lumped as uncaring and merely having kids as "future security". Still shaking my head........sick of too much of the lumping Koreans into unfeeling automatons....sick of too many lumping foreigners as just losers without a life....let's all step back and look at individuals. Only they can be judged, if at all.

DD

"even the heart is a little left of center." Northrope Frye


I'm agree totally with you ddeubel!


Last edited by fidel on Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:50 pm; edited 2 times in total
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joe_doufu



Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ddeubel wrote:
Quote:
Koreans see a child as a walking eating mutual fund. They don't give a crap about how it feels as long as the fund starts paying off before they retire.


Sorry but got to say this.....It is this kind of attitude; patronizing, "xenophobic", ethnocentric and "childish" - that makes we want to avoid so many who post here..... He, as well of the OP, should think before they post blanket statements.


You're right of course. I'm sure that deep down inside they love their children. But they don't express these feelings in their actions. I guess they think that it's better to swallow your feelings and do what everybody else does, even if that means beating your child, abusing it with education, or treating it like a financial product. I think a lot of the time Koreans know the difference between right and wrong but choose wrong because that's what everybody else does. That's the thing that really bugs me about this country.
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JongnoGuru



Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I expect Periwinkle and Yu Bum Suk to act like excitable school girls who like to jump on the anti-Korean bandwagon and m asturbate each other

Sorry, Fidel, I got distracted by something at that point. So, what were you saying?
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Neil



Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: Tokyo

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yu_Bum_suk wrote:
ddeubel wrote:
Quote:
Koreans see a child as a walking eating mutual fund. They don't give a crap about how it feels as long as the fund starts paying off before they retire.


Sorry but got to say this.....It is this kind of attitude; patronizing, "xenophobic", ethnocentric and "childish" - that makes we want to avoid so many who post here..... He, as well of the OP, should think before they post blanket statements. It only speaks of your own insecurity as expats and your lack of understanding regarding human and parental behaviour.

Screaming kids, bad parents happen all over the world. We see it more here in Korea for several reasons --- none having to do with them being unloving parents!!!!!! Please think before saying such crap. We see this more in Korea because 1) they are more tolerant of their kids and their behaviour in public (a nice change in my mind, letting kids do their thing) 2) most importantly, Korea is a very densely populated country. More chance of people being on top of each other and this thing being witnessed.

In no event are parents to just be off handedly lumped as uncaring and merely having kids as "future security". Still shaking my head........sick of too much of the lumping Koreans into unfeeling automatons....sick of too many lumping foreigners as just losers without a life....let's all step back and look at individuals. Only they can be judged, if at all.

DD

"even the heart is a little left of center." Northrope Frye


There are many parts of Europe that are just as densly populated where children are, on average, way more pleasant, polite, and well controlled; and they do this without hitting their kids the way most Korean parents do. There is something seriously *beep* up about parenting in this country and unfortunately it's hard to avoid.


French kids are worse than Korean kids in my experience, agree with the rest through.
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ChimpumCallao



Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: your mom

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

joe_doufu wrote:
ddeubel wrote:
Quote:
Koreans see a child as a walking eating mutual fund. They don't give a crap about how it feels as long as the fund starts paying off before they retire.


Sorry but got to say this.....It is this kind of attitude; patronizing, "xenophobic", ethnocentric and "childish" - that makes we want to avoid so many who post here..... He, as well of the OP, should think before they post blanket statements.


You're right of course. I'm sure that deep down inside they love their children. But they don't express these feelings in their actions. I guess they think that it's better to swallow your feelings and do what everybody else does, even if that means beating your child, abusing it with education, or treating it like a financial product. I think a lot of the time Koreans know the difference between right and wrong but choose wrong because that's what everybody else does. That's the thing that really bugs me about this country.


wonderfully put, joe. Sure parents love their kids...but when I see a zombie-esque bunch of 16 year olds who've never been to a school dance or held hands with a member of the opposite sex before at 1:00 am leaving school or the brats that take up 4 seats on the subway while the 89 year old humpback ajumma has to suck it up, it leads me to the conclusion that IN GENERAL, parents could be more responsible and loving here.

Quote:
F ucken makes me want to pumble a few people


LOL. then let's get ready to 'pumble'.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know of course that a good many Koreans are firmly convinced that Western parents don't love their children or know how to raise them to be properly respectful of others. For example, no parent who really loved its baby would give it a room down the hall until it was four or five years old. No truly loving parent would expect a kid to move out when he/she is 18. That is just cold and uncaring. No real parent would raise a kid to be so self-centered that they don't care how others think.

You also know that Western shrinks advise parents not to give a screaming temper tantrum throwing kid any attention (unless it is in danger of hurting itself).
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paperbag princess



Joined: 07 Mar 2004
Location: veggie hell

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

my favourite is when screaming children in e-mart are given candy to be quiet.
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