Korean Job Discussion Forums

[joe_doufu]

I think my hagwon is about to implode spectacularly... I've been paid about half (900k) of this month's salary, which was due last Monday. The owner admits they're in the red, and minutes after this discussion yet another student's mother pulled her child out. Classes are shrinking and one aimless class with poor discipline has been divided into two, sending the students out to poison another class. Nobody is learning very much except a couple of special (and small) classes.

So on the one hand I'd like to help save the hagwon so I continue getting paid, but on the other hand I don't want to spend a lot of money doing so, because I'm afraid the owners won't bend over backward to pay my back salary and housing deposit back to me if they go out of business. Also I'm in month 5, which means if they wait three weeks go go bankrupt I'm no longer liable for my airfare coming over.

[JeJuJitsu]

No answers, but am in similar situation---BUT with a twist, in a small town, former teacher was "popular" with the kids who now teaches in the same town but at a different academy, so out of 150 kids, 18 have left for the former teachers' now new academy, and having just arrived, my Haggy is now "in trouble." I kinda feel screwed, but am just glad 130 of the original 150 "like" me. But still feeling a pay cut coming...if not worse...

[Grotto]

dont sweat it.

Even if its a cheap hogwan 125,000 won a month multiply that by 130 kids and you end up with about 16,000,000+ coming in a month....if they try to cut your wages dont let them...they can do without a new scarf or TV or trip or whatever. They are still raking in the cash.

FT salary+apt+airfare+etc=3 mil a month
KT salary=1 to 2 mil a month
rent/overhead/sitting on butt in office=maybe 5 mil a month(especially in a small town)

Total spent 10 mil

total pocketed 6 mil

sorry no sympathy for hogwan owner losing out on an extra 2 mil income

[ontheway]

Joe Doufu, your situation here sounds pretty bad. Doing a business "turnaround" is a big undertaking, HUGE work hours ... I've done those (before. Teaching is easier and more fun.) It takes a really strong relationship and contract with the owner on a turnaround. A huge commitment, huge risk and you need the possibity of major rewards.

JeJuJitsu's hogwan has enough students to survive with proper management and a good educational program.

But it could be:

130 students @ 80,000/month...10,400,000
less: late pay/no pay students........160,000
foreign teacher(total cost)...........3,000,000
2 Korean teachers......................3,000,000
2 hogwan vans & drivers.............4,000,000
rent/utilities/expenses.................1,500,000
misc. insurance and taxes..............400,000
..........Net Loss.........................<1,660,000>

This kind of monthly net loss would require some immediate action. But, it's only an example. Yes, they could have higher per student fees. They could also have more or fewer teachers, advertising expenses, materials and equipment fees and interest on debt for start up costs.

Of course, we don't know the actual numbers. But Grotto's guesswork is completely out of line.

[Hater Depot]

And many small business owners have substantial amount of debt incurred during start-up costs.

[mysteriousdeltarays]

Forget the math etc. School is going to hit an iceberg. Go to immigration first and speak in vague terms about impending disaster, express your fears, get a document that is called Change of Place, Addition or Conditions of employment. It is usually used for working at two places.

You could ask about it but don't be specific. Look under the tables where people fill out forms there will be one. Take it home with you.

When the wrenching sound of the ice hits home. Have your school write out their story of bankruptcy at the wide space at the top. Leave the date part blank. Get a red chop on it. Get a letter of release, like so many other people I will P.M. you one but you can get a generic version, on EFLLaw.com or whatever it is called, maybe still. My version leaves the date open through a clever ploy. If the place actually goes bankrupt you won't be paid so start looking for a job now.

Don't date either document because then it will be only good for two weeks.

If the ship really slips under, your visa is good untill you find another job.

Depending on where you are, and where your new job begins, you may or may not have to leave the country and return.

You may be in effect tacitly blamed for the ships demise. DO NOT go to the labor board or sue them or anything. They are probably as traumatized as you. You will need their good will.

I went through the same thing. But according to the recruiters I'm too old to type this quickly. Good luck dealing with these rats. I'm overly aged and overly qualified so I'm off to a university in a communist country.

Be sure to be nice to the kids before it slips under. Kids like and need stability. I like the kids, that rock and roll and dancing are about the only things I'll miss.

No I'll miss the whole place. See other postings for how I feel. Incidently PM me if you want a list of the good agents vs the evil. There are so few good ones that I only send them to those adrift in the frozen Atlantic.

Good Luck!

[joe_doufu]

Not sure I understand what you're saying, friend, but thanks for the encouragement.

Basically the situation is my hagwon owners bought the hagwon just as I arrived, but didn't tell me there was a change of ownership. In fact, the old owner still pretends to own the place, because she is a nice old lady who has run the school for 15 years and all the customers like her. So instead of a stable old business I work for a brand new venture which is losing customers.

The school is dilapidated. There's a photo on the wall dated 1998 featuring an old foreign teacher and some old students. I've seen it many times but only this week noticed that the faded pink curtains in the photo look a lot like the extremely faded pink curtains we have now. Location is our only good quality (smack dab between a housing complex and a high school and elementary school, right by a bus stop).

I'm afraid my bosses don't know much about business. They've done nothing to attract customers -- in Taiwan my school held constant PR events like having me read a story book in the local Cave's Books or hosting holiday parties and open houses -- or upgrade our offerings. I want to help but I don't think I'll enjoy any reward if the school succeeds, just get ripped off if it fails.

[some waygug-in]

Sounds a lot like what I went through last year. I feel for you.

In the the place where I worked there were only 2 months of the year where the school actually made enough money to pay me and those were the vacation months when I had extra classes and the school had lots of students. The rest of the year..........well, similarly, if the school had actually done some advertising I think they could have turned things around.

As it was, I stayed the full year because I had a free place to stay and half salary is better than no salary. During vaction months my boss did try to catch up.........but it wasn't enough.

At the end of the year, I ended up being owed 2 months back wages + severance. I knew I would never see it, but I stayed because I liked the students and I really hoped that the school would turn around. It didn't because the director just would not do anything to promote the school or draw in more students.
I offered to teach extra morning classes..........he said ,"nobody will come"
I told him that there was nobody to answer the phones before 12 noon, so he was losing business left and right because my Korean is not up to answering the phone.

I did try to go to the labour board, but that was a total waste of time. No one there speaks English and they wouldn't even begin to hear about my situation.

You will have to decide if it's worth sticking around for half wages or not.

If I had to go through it all again..........I would just quit.

And I suspect that the director was actually hoping that I would quit, so he would not have to pay me. I really think that was his plan all along.

All I can say is good luck. If you have enough money to leave, then do it. Things are not going to turn around.

If you have to stay, perhaps you can get a few extras from your boss.

Mine paid all my utilities because he couldn't pay my full wages..........

so at least that was something.

[Grotto]

Dummy wrote

[TheUrbanMyth]

[Gord]

[joe_doufu]

Grotto, your math is flawed for the simple reason that you assume parents pay what they owe. My wonjangnim has confessed that several students parents' haven't paid up, one is a full year behind and owes more than a million won.

ne thing they drum into you in business school is that just because you're turning a profit doesn't mean you're bringing in money! If the school pays its teachers an average of 15 days after their work is done (which is the case here), and the parents pay the kids tuition an average of 30-60 days after it is due, you can have a hagwon that is consistently gaining new students and hiring new teachers, turning a profit on paper, but running out of cash. In your calculations, you must discount the tuition received by a percentage to account for both the lateness of payment and the likelihood of default.

[joe_doufu]

Furthermore, we're talking like 40-50 students here, maximum, and shrinking.

[mysteriousdeltarays]

Oh business major types. This isn't an impending disaster, although you obviously have your head in the sand. Take them to the labor board of course! That will solve everything EFL-Law told me so.

[JeJuJitsu]