Korean Job Discussion Forums

[coolsage]

This afternoon I hear wailing that resembles a coyote caught in a leg-hold-trap, so of course I'm drawn to the source. There, on the basketball court, which has been the bane of many of my sleepless nights, is a father thrashing his middle-school son with a serious rod , at least 4 feet long. Beating him all over the court while the kid begged for mercy. The poor kid was still in his school uniform; what crime had he committed-- finishing third in his class? If that weren't enough, while the kid was down on his knees, begging, tearfully apologizing to his father for his crimes, the basketball game continued. Nobody came to his rescue. If this is Korean 'tradition', then I think I've had about enough.

[Leslie Cheswyck]

So, who won the game?

[VanIslander]

There's a Western concept of "tough love" I find sickening too, very much so. Abandoning your child for their own good? Hogwash. My father never would and neither will I as a parent.

Every method of punishment and child rearing has its own logic, and its patent absurdity when viewed from without.

[rapier]

I don't see the problem with it.They should introduce it to hagwons, the kids might actually learn something.

Spare the rod and spoil the child.

[ladyandthetramp]

[tzechuk]

I don't agree with physical punishment - probably because it was never done on me.

[denverdeath]

Punishment principles work if they are used correctly. Having said that, seeing the huge bruises on the calves of six middle school girls limping down the hallways three days after the punishment(which, fortunately, I didn't witness) took place, is a little disturbing. Said punishment was given by a female teacher. I'm talking about HUGE bruises, taking up nearly the entire calf.

[joe_doufu]

Yeah, the thing is it's not punishment to correct behavior. Nor is it even "revenge" for offending the teacher. They simply beat the children because they can, using BS excuses like "he didn't get an A on the test". The "status" system in this country has got to go. Nobody has any power or control over their lives, so when they get power over others, they abuse it just to prove to themselves that they can.

[ChimpumCallao]

there can be arguments about how to raise a child and wether a little smack on the bottom or a hair pull is ok or not ok...whatever...this is not what this is about.

a child getting thrashed WITH a ROD is completely different. That is abuse and extremely common here to boot. It is also unacceptable and quite backwards. Children are not people's property and there is nothing I can think of a poor little boy doing to get beat down by a man twice his size. I believe that many Korean men, for some reason, really really get off on power. The number of 'beating' stories I've heard here are vast. The most disgusting thing is if that happened in most other civilized country someone would have come to their rescue, call the cops, or at least tell that guy to stop. This conficianist hell-hole of course, discourages such acts of altruism.

i cannot believe this is actually being justified...

[Hater Depot]

Confucianism seems fine in theory but the Korean interpretation of it is a bit whacked. I was talking with my tutor yesterday about this. I told her how if you give Korean students a little leeway they will walk all over you. But if you're a meanie not only do they behave better but seem to have more genuine respect for you.

She told me of a Korean idiom to describe this -- something about them 'creeping up' to my status level. It seems to me that many Koreans profess Confucianism but don't quite really believe it works -- the idea is that the juniors are deferential to the wiser seniors, yes? So why do the seniors always seem to feel so much need to be constantly putting the juniors in their place? And why do the juniors often not respect the seniors if they're not being put in their place?

I wish I knew more about Confucianism in other countries.

[canukteacher]

I had this conversation recently with two middle school students. One of the things that really disturbs me is "why they are beaten". Quite often is not for behavorial problems, but because their test scores on one test are lower than on the previous test. These girls have a math teacher who beats them if each test score is not higher than the last. That is just sick (IMO).

They also told me that the level of violence in the high schools is extremely high, and something that Koreans generally do not talk about in the outside world (what else is new?). Apparently many of the high schools now have police monitoring the schools, and kids are being 'handled" by the police for their violent out breaks.

These girls also told me that they really dislike the teachers who beat them.....................now isn't that a surprise. The beatings generally do not improve behavior or grades. In fact, they told me that it is the same kids being beaten everday (again not surprising).

These are smart girls, and they do well in school. If these well behaved students, who earn great marks have experienced the stick, I hate to thing about the poor students who don't have the high grades, or parents with the means to send them for extra study.

Personally, I don't think the stick is a solution for anything............misbehavior, or grades (not up to unrealistic expectations). I'm sure it causes many more problems than it actually solves.

CT

[Hobophobic]

"Teacher .... Teacher..... I want the 'A pulluh'.."
"But you have an 'A'."
"I'm no 'A pulluh' my mother kill."

Better run Tom...better run....

[Real Reality]

Korean Tradition Takes Beating in Canada Court
A Canadian court has raised hackles by putting a Korean man on probation for caning his 16-year-old, a high school student in Vancouver, during a recent visit.

In early January, the father, who is the CEO of a multinational corporation in Korea, visited Canada to see his son, who had moved there with his mother to study. He heard that his son was cutting class, coming home late and defying his mother, so on Jan. 7, he took the rod to the youth. He threatened to take him back to Korea unless he mended his ways, which the son vowed to do. The son, who was an honor student last year, saw his grades drop this year.

However, some five days after the father had returned to Korea, the son started playing truant again. On hearing this, the father got on the next flight to Canada and caned him again, this time more severely.
by Kim Jae-ho, Chosun Ilbo (March 13, 2005)
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200503/200503130032.html

A Korean father's lesson on raising cane
By Petti Fong, Globe and Mail, 12 March 2005
Parental corporal punishment in Canada
http://www.corpun.com/cad00503.htm

The ills of corporal punishment
South Korea legally permits corporal punishment "in the case where it is necessary for education." The Ministry of Education announced the policy last year, and suggested specific rules. As a result, more than 72 percent of schools nationwide have rules permitting such punishment.
by Yoon Ji-hi, JoongAng Daily (September 26, 2003)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200309/26/200309260315108079900090109012.html

Against Corporal Punishment: Moving Toward Constructive Child Discipline
A UNESCO PUBLICATION
Corporal punishment of children breaches children's fundamental human rights. It has been found to be a threat to the healthy development and welfare of children and their societies, and an ineffective form of discipline or control. Constructive, non-violent, child discipline is needed.
http://www.nospank.net/unesco.htm

Global Initiative to End All Corporal Punishment of Children
http://www.endcorporalpunishment.org/

Discipline and Violence
Teachers should impose non-physical disciplinary measures as an alternative to beatings or canings. Teachers can require students to write a statement describing the negative effects of their behaviour, or to apologize for the mistake in front of their classmates. The misbehaving child could sit on a chair or a mat at the back of the room and think about their mistake and of ways to improve their behaviour. You can ask the child to perform additional academic work. You can require the student to bring his or her parents to school to talk about poor behaviour.
http://www.unicef.org/teachers/protection/violence.htm

What Makes a Good Teacher?
http://www.unicef.org/teachers/teacher/teacher.htm
UNICEF - Teachers Talking
http://www.unicef.org/teachers/

[poker player]

Well I hate to say it but look at the all the crimes that juvies in North America are responsible for and then try to remember the last time you heard about juvies in Korea stealing cars and killing people in police pursuits, swarming and stealing from the elderly, offing their classmates, selling crack in the gym etc etc. No connection with parental discipline? I think not.

[ChimpumCallao]