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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:14 pm Post subject: Anti-Korean Sentiment Emerges From American Intellectuals |
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Anti-Korean Sentiment Emerges From American Intellectuals
There are signs of anti-Korean sentiment among Washington D.C. intellectuals. Unprecedented mockery and criticism against Korea has appeared, and anti-Korean sentiment, usually seen among Republicans, is showing signs of spreading to Democrats as well. Even pro-Korean people do not deny the recent spread of anti-Korean sentiment in Washington.
One Korea expert said, "It seems that some American intellectuals find it hard to accept the controversies over the statue and the survey results that Koreans regard America as a more dangerous country than North Korea."
by Seung-Ryun Kim, Donga.com (October 28, 2005)
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2005102854038 |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Do any of you remember seeing General (I'm not sure of his exact rank) Campbell cry on 60 Minutes back in '02? I think that was the point where some Americans began turning against Korea. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Do any of you remember seeing General (I'm not sure of his exact rank) Campbell cry on 60 Minutes back in '02? I think that was the point where some Americans began turning against Korea.
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No, but that sounds like a pretty classic episode of 60 MINUTES. What was the context of the general's tears? |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: Anti-Korean Sentiment Emerges From American Intellectual |
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| Real Reality wrote: |
| One Korea expert said, "It seems that some American intellectuals find it hard to accept the controversies over the statue and the survey results that Koreans regard America as a more dangerous country than North Korea." |
Yeah, funny them for not finding it all very reasonable and logical, isn't it? |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:40 pm Post subject: |
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Is the article really accurate, though? Are there more anti-Korea sentiments being expressed lately, and do the examples cited actually show this?
For instance, Peter Brooks in reference to some "controversy" re MacArthur's statue, speaks of "South Korea`s anti-American crowd.��
This is not directed at the entire country, just a segment within it - Brooks does not bother to make clear (at least as quoted here) that the "crowd" is some rather extreme leftists who would dislike America in any case.
Doug Bandow calls SK a "welfare queen," and I'm not sure why he's ignoring the fact that the Seoul govt pays some of the costs of our presence here - in truth, though, it's not so much a criticism of Korea to raise questions about the wisdom of US military continued involvement here.
As for Ms Clinton's "historical amnesia" remark, it's an oft-repeated pattern among a lot of Americans to discount the contributionss of other countries in the UN forces who fought here - it's also pretty common to see Americans who seem to think that every succeeding generation of Koreans need to feel immense gratitude for the supreme honor the US bestowed on them by choosing their country as the venue for our proxy war with Russia and China. Considering that vast numbers more Koreans died - many of them women, children and the aged - than UN forces soldiers, one could arrive at a different opinion about who really ought to be grateful ... personally, I think remarks like Ms Clilnon's indicate a differtent kind of amnesia, really. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Is the article really accurate, though? Are there more anti-Korea sentiments being expressed lately, and do the examples cited actually show this?
For instance, Peter Brooks in reference to some "controversy" re MacArthur's statue, speaks of "South Korea`s anti-American crowd.��
This is not directed at the entire country, just a segment within it - Brooks does not bother to make clear (at least as quoted here) that the "crowd" is some rather extreme leftists who would dislike America in any case.
Doug Bandow calls SK a "welfare queen," and I'm not sure why he's ignoring the fact that the Seoul govt pays some of the costs of our presence here - in truth, though, it's not so much a criticism of Korea to raise questions about the wisdom of US military continued involvement here.
As for Ms Clinton's "historical amnesia" remark, it's an oft-repeated pattern among a lot of Americans to discount the contributionss of other countries in the UN forces who fought here - it's also pretty common to see Americans who seem to think that every succeeding generation of Koreans need to feel immense gratitude for the supreme honor the US bestowed on them by choosing their country as the venue for our proxy war with Russia and China. Considering that vast numbers more Koreans died - many of them women, children and the aged - than UN forces soldiers, one could arrive at a different opinion about who really ought to be grateful ... personally, I think remarks like Ms Clilnon's indicate a differtent kind of amnesia, really.
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I agree that the headline is exaggerated and doesn't really reflect what the article says.
Brooks is quite clearly directing his comments at that portion of the population that wants the statue removed.
Bandow has been using the term welfare queen in relation to SK for a long time. I'm pretty sure it's used in his book "Tripwire". Of course he is referring to the SK getting its defense on the cheap because they have not had to pay for the full cost of US troops here.
In the version of Sen. Clinton's remarks that I read, she wasn't referring so much to the war as to the decades of support SK received that allowed them to develop such a rich society (or words very much to that effect). |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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What was the context of the general's tears?
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It was during the presidential election here where the mass crowds were attending candle light vigils in all the cities. One of the regular parts of the vigil was to burn an immense US flag. Pres. DJ and both candidates all refrained from any criticism or voicing a moderating message. All the papers and TV networks were cheering the crowds on.
The interviewer (Mike Wallace?) showed Gen. Campbell (who was one of the top 2 or 3 American military figures here in Korea at the time) a clip of a big flag being burned and then asked him to share his feelings about it. If I remember right, he expressed his pride in serving his country and protecting Korea's independence and freedom of speech...all the time with tears streaming down his face.
The next day or so there was a letter from a Korean in one of the papers saying, basically, 'Oops. Maybe we've gone too far'. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
The interviewer (Mike Wallace?) showed Gen. Campbell (who was one of the top 2 or 3 American military figures here in Korea at the time) a clip of a big flag being burned and then asked him to share his feelings about it. If I remember right, he expressed his pride in serving his country and protecting Korea's independence and freedom of speech...all the time with tears streaming down his face.
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Sheesh. A man trained as a professional killer and he breaks into waterworks when someone burns his flag? I understand patriotism and everything, but if the worst thing a soldier has to see is some yahoos torching Old Glory, I'd say he's living a charmed life.
| Quote: |
| The next day or so there was a letter from a Korean in one of the papers saying, basically, 'Oops. Maybe we've gone too far'. |
Just speculating here, but perhaps that was the point of the general's emoting? Possibly meant to indicate that the Americans are in fact paying attention to what's going on, so Koreans should maybe tone it down a bit? I seem to remember a couple of years back, when the aftershocks of the 2002 histrionics were still being felt, some policy wonk in DC said something to the effect of "oh well if the Koreans don't want us here, maybe we should just leave". If I recall correctly, the usual suspects, from Roh on down, dutifully fell into line after that, proclaiming their commitment to the alliance and blah blah blah.
Anyway, I suspect this latest round of posturing from three American intellectuals is getting far more media play in Korea than in the USA. . |
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sundubuman
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:43 am Post subject: |
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It's not as if the Korean War is the only aspect to American feelings towards Korea.
There are the 200,000 adopted orphans raised and educated by American families, the 2,000,000 and counting Koreans who have emigrated and thrived in the US... the immense strides made by Korean industry largely through the sharing/investment and oftentimes theft of American technology....
All the while stationing tens of thousands of Americans ready to die for the freedom of the southern half of this peninsula.
It is true that many, if not most Koreans have not forgotten this, but way, way too many have. |
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Joseph Fitzgerald
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:22 am Post subject: |
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Exactly Subdubhuman,
The majority of Korea needs to WAKE UP, and see the Real World!!!!!
That or just dreaminng that a united han country will be THE world leader one day. Dream on SOUTH Korea!!!!! |
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bitter_hag
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| sundubuman wrote: |
It's not as if the Korean War is the only aspect to American feelings towards Korea.
There are the 200,000 adopted orphans raised and educated by American families, the 2,000,000 and counting Koreans who have emigrated and thrived in the US... the immense strides made by Korean industry largely through the sharing/investment and oftentimes theft of American technology....
All the while stationing tens of thousands of Americans ready to die for the freedom of the southern half of this peninsula.
It is true that many, if not most Koreans have not forgotten this, but way, way too many have. |
I'm in agreement. I'm not surprised at all that figures from both parties, Democrat and Republican, have a bad perception of Korea right now. If the liberalist/dove Democrats are starting to spew negative rhetoric regarding Korea this is bad. I expect realists/hawks to react negatively to any sign of anti-Americanism.
It's not about Americans ignoring the contributions of other countries to the Republic of Korea, but it is grating to deal with the rampant B.S. that Koreans are throwing around. I don't expect Koreans to love Americans or America unconditionally. I don't expect Americans to do the same either. Also, they don't love us unconditionally in Europe where there are still also U.S. troops, but you also don't see them saying the Marshall Plan or the Truman Doctrine was a bad idea (well, not most of them as those US policies contributed greatly to the rebuilding of Europe post-WWII).
Korea has to initiate a dialogue between the older generation that was here and experienced history first hand and the younger generations who romanticize and pretty much ignore the facts. When I talk to Koreans on the anti-American issue, most don't even have a firm grasp of their history. They always bring the up the school girls who were run over and I remind them that 1) it was an accident and 2) the DPRK intentionally fired on a South Korea military ship and killed South Koreans who were at sea. So it's easy to focus on what you want (how bad, evil, Imperialist America is) and ignore what you don't want to talk about (your cousins up north who are ignorant and suffering or are part of the elite in Pyongyang).
Don't get me wrong. The same criticism applies to your average American too, so this isn't saying that overall we're any better, but we don't have a foreign army guarding us on our soil. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:43 am Post subject: |
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It looks like the Donga editor missed a word in the headline; It should have read-
Justifiable Anti-Korean Sentiment Emerges From American Intellectuals |
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laconic2
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Wonderful World of ESL
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:17 pm Post subject: Implying |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
Is the article really accurate, though? Are there more anti-Korea sentiments being expressed lately, and do the examples cited actually show this?
For instance, Peter Brooks in reference to some "controversy" re MacArthur's statue, speaks of "South Korea`s anti-American crowd.��
This is not directed at the entire country, just a segment within it - Brooks does not bother to make clear (at least as quoted here) that the "crowd" is some rather extreme leftists who would dislike America in any case.
Doug Bandow calls SK a "welfare queen," and I'm not sure why he's ignoring the fact that the Seoul govt pays some of the costs of our presence here - in truth, though, it's not so much a criticism of Korea to raise questions about the wisdom of US military continued involvement here.
As for Ms Clinton's "historical amnesia" remark, it's an oft-repeated pattern among a lot of Americans to discount the contributionss of other countries in the UN forces who fought here - it's also pretty common to see Americans who seem to think that every succeeding generation of Koreans need to feel immense gratitude for the supreme honor the US bestowed on them by choosing their country as the venue for our proxy war with Russia and China. Considering that vast numbers more Koreans died - many of them women, children and the aged - than UN forces soldiers, one could arrive at a different opinion about who really ought to be grateful ... personally, I think remarks like Ms Clilnon's indicate a differtent kind of amnesia, really. |
I've taken the liberty of putting in bold above the section that concerns me in what you wrote.
Are you stating or implying the U.S. started the Korean War and deliberately chose Korea for such a conflict?
If you are, I find your thinking to be both illogical and inconsistent with historical facts as to how the war actually started.
Yours is really an outrageous comment. |
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shakuhachi
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| Sheesh. A man trained as a professional killer and he breaks into waterworks when someone burns his flag? I understand patriotism and everything, but if the worst thing a soldier has to see is some yahoos torching Old Glory, I'd say he's living a charmed life. |
There is a difference when the usual suspects, like Iran, burn the flag of 'the great satan', and when people from a so called allied country do it, a country which that soldier was protecting. The tears probably came from a sense of betrayal. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:21 am Post subject: Re: Implying |
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| laconic2 wrote: |
| The Bobster wrote: |
| As for Ms Clinton's "historical amnesia" remark, it's an oft-repeated pattern among a lot of Americans to discount the contributionss of other countries in the UN forces who fought here - it's also pretty common to see Americans who seem to think that every succeeding generation of Koreans need to feel immense gratitude for the supreme honor the US bestowed on them by choosing their country as the venue for our proxy war with Russia and China. Considering that vast numbers more Koreans died - many of them women, children and the aged - than UN forces soldiers, one could arrive at a different opinion about who really ought to be grateful ... personally, I think remarks like Ms Clilnon's indicate a differtent kind of amnesia, really. |
I've taken the liberty of putting in bold above the section that concerns me in what you wrote.
Are you stating or implying the U.S. started the Korean War and deliberately chose Korea for such a conflict?
If you are, I find your thinking to be both illogical and inconsistent with historical facts as to how the war actually started.
Yours is really an outrageous comment. |
The United States made agreements with Japan to allow Japan to dominate Korea, then annex the country. Then, at the end of WWII Russian troops were already flowing into Korea (naturally enough given the exodus of the Japanese and the existence of one of the several Governments in Exile in Russia... Guess which...) when the US demanded they stop at the mid-point so the US could come into the other half. So, while the US obviously did not start the war, it was heavily involved in setting up the conditions that did.
You may argue the politics and wisdom of these choices and actions at your leisure, but they are historical facts. I find it more outrageous trying to deny that political choices by the US were not in part responsible for the eventual outbreak of war. |
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