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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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 Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:41 pm Post subject: Russia tests warhead that pierces US missile shield |
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As if we needed more proof that this Wile E. Coyote/ACME sponsered scheme won't ever work:
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200511021655.htm
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Moscow, Nov 2.(PTI): Russia has successfully tested a warhead capable of piercing the US missile shield and could renew production of multiple warheads with independent re-entry banned by the now defunct Soviet-American SALT-2 treaty, a leading daily reported today.
Yesterday, Russia for the sixth time successfully tested its RS-12M1 'Topol-M' missile with a highly manoeuvrable warhead capable of annihilating the national missile defence (NMD) currently being developed by the Americans, according to 'Kommersant' daily.
"It was launched from Kapustin Yar range to hit a target in Balkhash testing ground in neighbouring Kazakhstan leased by Russian Defence Ministry so the Americans could not monitor the manoeuvres of the warhead after it detaches from the intercontinental ballistic missile," the daily said.
It also noted that the earlier five tests were conducted from Plesetsk range north of the country. However, Americans could monitor the movements of the warhead over Okhotsk Sea before it used to hit the target at Kura testing ground in Russia's eastern region of Kamchatka, the daily said.
"The Russian military claims that manoeuvres of the warhead on the final stretch of its trajectory do not allow its interception and destruction by the missile defence systems," 'Kommersant' wrote noting that this would be Moscow's "asymmetrical" response to the US NMD.
Deployment of mobile Topol-M missiles with new warheads would begin next year and the 54th division based in Teikovo 200 km from Moscow would get the first three units, the daily quoted Commander-in-chief of Strategic Missile Forces, General Nikolai Solovtsev, as saying.
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What a waste, New Orleans destroyed, Afghanistan slipping back into war (fueled by opium) and Iraq spinning into Vietnam II and the US has money for this. Duh! |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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| "Gee, we should have renewed the SALT II treaty... ooops." |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| this Wile E. Coyote/ACME sponsered scheme |
I'm sorry, but I think you are denigrating the reputation of both Wiley E. and ACME. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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I think the USA is well aware that the Russians could easily make a MIRV type missile that would penetrate the shield. The USA has said all along that it's not meant to make MAD with Russia or even China irrelevant.
It's all about North Korea. North Korea nukes Seattle. Then it says "we'll nuke LA next if you don't send us Quentin Tarantino!" Can the US reduce NK to a sheet of glass? Many Americans would agree it's a fitting response. However, even one nuke over NK would create a Chernobyl like disaster. South Korean, Russian, China, and Japan would all be devastated by fall out. Cows would have to be killed, top soil removed, crops destroyed... The Russians, Chinese, South Koreans, and Japanese might not be very friendly to having even the likes of NK being nuked in their backyard.
So the best defense is such a shield, something that can realistically defend against a small nation's limited missile capabilities. |
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Octavius Hite
Joined: 28 Jan 2004
Location: Househunting, looking for a new bunker from which to convert the world to homosexuality.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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That is such shortsighted thinking it is making my head hurt. If the Russians and Chinese can build warheads to do this then it won't be long before the North Koreans and Iranians do it as well. The North Koreans are spending every minute of every day developing new missiles that will do the same thing as the Russians have just done. No matter how much money the Americans spend it will not be able to stop ICBM's everyone with a Phd has made this point including top scientists at MIT.
WASTE OF MONEY! |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| WASTE OF MONEY! |
It's not your money!!!!
Why do you care? |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| WASTE OF MONEY! |
I don't know *beep* about macroeconomics!!!!
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There, I fixed it for you so others don't have to read between the lines. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| Pligganease wrote: |
| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| WASTE OF MONEY! |
I don't know *beep* about macroeconomics!!!!
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There, I fixed it for you so others don't have to read between the lines. |
Mith! What a witty way to avoid the question! Cheers!
Unless I missed something, Canadians don't pay taxes in the States. DO they? Did they finally apply for statehood?
So , in other words, you guys are upset that we are spending the money on American goods built by American companies for the protection of the American citizens, and not lining Canadians' pockets with that money. That same money, once spent in America, is in turn paid to the Americans that build those products. Those employees spend the money on other goods made by other people, some American and some not, where the money is redistributed and everyone is happy. (Everyone except the people who post on this board...)
So, let me ask another question.
Why do you care? Oh, sorry. That's the same question. I guess you forgot to answer it...[/b] |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:56 am Post subject: |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
| mithridates wrote: |
| Pligganease wrote: |
| Octavius Hite wrote: |
| WASTE OF MONEY! |
I don't know *beep* about macroeconomics!!!!
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There, I fixed it for you so others don't have to read between the lines. |
Mith! What a witty way to avoid the question! Cheers!
Unless I missed something, Canadians don't pay taxes in the States. DO they? Did they finally apply for statehood?
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He answered it quite well, actually. Do you really need it spelled out? Then there's that little thing about return on investment and risk assessment. I mean, every system ever created, a solution's been found.
Disarmament is *the* only option. And, yes, I am aware of the complexities inherent in that statement. But, like the war in Iraq and the failure to appropriately use resources in New Orleans (sides of the same coin), the return on investment (non-investment) will be minimal and the gains none at all.
I'd rather see a missile strike on Yongbyon before wasting all that money and time on the missile shield. Cheaper and more effective, even with the political implications of such a move. And I am heavily weighted toward non-violence and non-intervention! |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| He answered it quite well, actually. |
Uh... Where?
EFLTrainer,
I realize that you are going to take any stance where you are given the ability to spew all of your "Everything that America does is wrong" stuff, but you're saying that you'd rather see us use nuclear weapons than implement a system that allows us to not have to? Are you saying that if George Bush actually came out and said that we were going to plan "a missile strike on Yongbyon" you would support it? I doubt that you would. Like most other topics, you are simply against this just because Bush is for it.
Remember all of the "Alphabet" Programs that were implemented during the New Deal? This is very similar in the fact that it is a way for the government to pump money back into the economy. Granted, the money could have been better used to build stronger levies in New Orleans, but hindsight is 20/20. You could just as easily say that the Golden Gate bridge needs to be completely rebuilt because, one day, it might fall.
ROI? Are you telling me that you have a way to measure the worth of American lives and the feeling of security, false if it is, that the American people might enjoy from this? Please share that, because I'd love to see the formula. Contrary to what Mith might say, I do know a little bit about finance and economics. The unseen (Well, unseen by the opponents of it) benefits of this project are more than you might know. People always talk about the American media instilling fear into America, and then complain when the government is trying to eliminate some of that fear. You can't have it both ways. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:18 am Post subject: |
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No, I'm sure you know about economics, I was just having a bit of fun. And I have answered the question many times before - I care whether my country's nearest neighbour and largest trading partner is doing well or not. I don't give a damn about Lesotho's economy, for example, because it's both too far away and too small.
Wouldn't it just be easier to make it look like the US has an awesome missile shield but never be upfront about it? Spread false information and whatnot, make everybody like igtg think that there's a secret base somewhere where everything is all set up. I doubt that North Korean intelligence would be good enough to crack that. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:27 am Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| No, I'm sure you know about economics, I was just having a bit of fun. And I have answered the question many times before - I care whether my country's nearest neighbour and largest trading partner is doing well or not. I don't give a damn about Lesotho's economy, for example, because it's both too far away and too small. |
Good answer. I can respect that 100%.
| mithridates wrote: |
| Wouldn't it just be easier to make it look like the US has an awesome missile shield but never be upfront about it? Spread false information and whatnot, make everybody like igtg think that there's a secret base somewhere where everything is all set up. I doubt that North Korean intelligence would be good enough to crack that. |
That would be great. You know us... We Americans are all about a "false sense of security." 
Remember how we felt on September 11, 2000?  |
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BigBlackEquus
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Location: Lotte controls Asia with bad chocolate!
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:10 am Post subject: |
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The thing that I don't get is that part of the missile defense system is based on lasers which have already been aimed and successfully fired at moving bullets fired from howitzers. A Russian missle can't move fast enough to outmanuever a laser.
Just who is wasting money, and trying to keep itself from sounding like a cold war failure? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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It's not your money!!!!
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Unfortunately, it isn't our money we're spending either. It's China's money since the prez and his Congress cut taxes so much we can't pay for much of anything.
There's a certain irony in borrowing money from the Chinese to build a system to protect ourselves from them. A rather sick irony, but nonetheless...
If the system worked I'd be a lot more interested in having it put in place. It just doesn't make a lot of sense to me to abrogate SALT II and make everyone mad, just so we can build something that doesn't work. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Octavius Hite wrote: |
That is such shortsighted thinking it is making my head hurt. If the Russians and Chinese can build warheads to do this then it won't be long before the North Koreans and Iranians do it as well. The North Koreans are spending every minute of every day developing new missiles that will do the same thing as the Russians have just done. No matter how much money the Americans spend it will not be able to stop ICBM's everyone with a Phd has made this point including top scientists at MIT.
WASTE OF MONEY! |
Well, the Russians apparently can. But I would think the USA figures by the time the North Koreans can get to that stage, the USA already has something better. The moment someone builds a better anti-tank weapon, someone builds a better tank. That's the nature of an arms race. |
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