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Stay in Korea, or flee to Japan?
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matko



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: in a world of hurt!

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Also, I see no reason for Gord and Matko to have a pissing match over who saved more money


I agree

Captain Pot head turned it into one. My original post was to clarify that it was not outrageously expensive to live in Japan and that you could save alot of money. I don't care how much people have in their bank accounts. That's not my business. However, when I see people post stuff that is untrue I respond.

Why Captain Gordo responded the way he did is unclear to me. Must be some inbred inferiority complex Rolling Eyes

Canadian Teacher asked me "Why do you post on this forum if you live in the land of milk and honey"?

Well,do you post on the Japan forum? After living there for 3 years, do you have absolutely no interest in what is going on here? Why do you think I have no reason to post here? Is this some kind of exclusive club where only people who are currently living in Korea can post? Please give me a list of acceptable and unnacceptable posters. I am very curious to hear your ideas because you OBVIOUSLY know who should and should not post.

Rolling Eyes
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Gord



Joined: 25 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

matko wrote:
Captain Pot head turned it into one. My original post was to clarify that it was not outrageously expensive to live in Japan and that you could save alot of money. I don't care how much people have in their bank accounts. That's not my business. However, when I see people post stuff that is untrue I respond.

Why Captain Gordo responded the way he did is unclear to me. Must be some inbred inferiority complex Rolling Eyes


Your original respose was that Japan was not outrageously expensive to live in. That's just a complete lie. Everything costs more, with noodles being marginally more to taxis been multiple times more. Even music CDs are three times the cost. It is, in no uncertain terms, the most expensive country in the world to live in. At the same time, people get paid less.

Can one make money in Japan? Well, yes, of course. Can they make money as easily while having the same standard of living as they would in Korea? Unlikely.

Plus your post was condascending and suggestive that anyone who agreed with the idea Japan has a higher cost of living was just retarded.

Fact: Japan costs more it pays less than Korea on average. End of story. That doesn't mean one can't make money, but comes down to how much one is willing to sacrifice in order to save that money.

You decided to sit at home and rarely go out in order to save money when the subject at hand was talking about the cost of going out and doing things and still being able to save money.
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matko



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: in a world of hurt!

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a great life and save alot of money.

Why can't you accept that?

When did I use The word "retarded" When did I ever say that the cost of living was higher in korea?

I rarely stay home and do nothing. When was that the subject at hand?

What are you talking about?

Oh, I forgot, this is Captain oblivious talking Rolling Eyes


Last edited by matko on Thu May 22, 2003 6:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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Squaffy



Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: All over the place

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Canadian Teacher: so you didn't work for NOVA or GEOS - bet you were a GABA muppet then - it's no use putting your hand in the air like a little school kid saying 'sir - squaffy called me a bad name' - the mods do their job quite well without you calling their attention to it.

Both you and orpheousdown need to resize your avatars for starters...

...dare I go on...
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

music CDs are three times the cost??? Uh, well I admit I haven't spent much time in Japan (a whopping 6 hours or so) but I did go to a Tower Records in that short time and the prices weren't even twice as expensive (albeit close to that: 200 yen or so). Your basic udong (or whatever they call it in Japanese) dish was only a bit more pricey than what you'd pay here in Korea.

Not to be anal or anything, but making blatant exagerations does not help one's arguement. And I certainly agree that it is much easier to save money in Korea than in Japan- at least for a new arrival.
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rush



Joined: 17 May 2003

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have lived in Japan on and off for the last 3 years... the average sallary
is about 280 thousand yen a month. Rent is about 60 thousand... so
providing that your not eating at Restaurants every night you can easily
save 1000 US a month, and go out on Fri and Sat and have a drink
with the boys and generally have a good time.... trust me on that one
cause I certainly had no regrets going there....
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Gord



Joined: 25 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

matko wrote:
I have a great life and save alot of money.

Why can't you accept that?


This has gone way off track and you're viewing this as some sort of Gord vs. Matko debate. Let's scroll all the way back to the start of the thread.

willgreen wrote:
Please list reasons to stay.
Or reason why Japan might be better


Exactly. That's all the subject matter at hand is. If Will packs up and heads to Japan he'll have a higher cost of living and be paid less money. Those are major considerations when thinking about going from Korea to Japan.

No one cares about how much money you make in Japan, and no one cares that I make more money than you. Will just wants information that will affect his decision, which is why the whole "cost of living" came up. Choosing to work in Japan means making less money than working in Korea, and that's all that matters in regards to the thread subject.
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Squaffy



Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: All over the place

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the main point should be 'spending alot' to get yourself settled in a nice home - if you can splash out and do it, Japan is perfect. Forget the commercial schools - there are some very good teaching gigs to be had in Japan - and pvts are legal. Friend of mine is in Hiroshima and loving every minute of it.

Am sure Matko will vouch for that.

Gord: Higher cost of living if based in a Japanese city - yes, for sure - Tokyo sucks big style there - out in the beautiful country, different story.


Last edited by Squaffy on Thu May 22, 2003 6:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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Gord



Joined: 25 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:
music CDs are three times the cost??? Uh, well I admit I haven't spent much time in Japan (a whopping 6 hours or so) but I did go to a Tower Records in that short time and the prices weren't even twice as expensive (albeit close to that: 200 yen or so). ...

Not to be anal or anything, but making blatant exagerations does not help one's arguement. .


Let's back that up.

Korea, I buy a CD a week. Cost between 9,000 Won and 11,000 Won depnding on the CD.

Japan, I usually shop for them online via Amazon.co.jp. Cost: 2300 Yen to 3000 Yen for most CDs, with some that I balked on costing as much as 4000 Yen. But now I just forward my requests to a friend who picks them up at a used CD store for less as paying 3000 Yen for a music CD makes me sad.
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matko



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: in a world of hurt!

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gord,

When did I say anything otherwise Confused

Korea is better for first time teachers. Japan is expensive to start out in.

I recomend Korea for first time teachers if money is all you are concerned about.

Again, I just don't like to hear from uninformed people that Japan is not an option because you can't save money. You can!!

That's all.
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matko



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: in a world of hurt!

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gord,

Average price of an import cd is 1,900 yen

Average price of a domestic Japanese cd is 2,500 yen
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Canadian Teacher



Joined: 22 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pros and cons? Ok, here is a list.

Korea: Pro: Good salaries. Low cost of living. Low entertainment costs. Good, cheap restaurants. Free rent. Good and cheap health insurance. Excellent and cheap internet. Jobs galore. Potential to save at least half your salary. Return airfare. Hot women. Cheap drinking. It isn't all 7-11s yet. Score, Korea 15.

Korea con: It is not a developed country. It can be dirty in places. People lack sophistication. Wild driving. Many schools financially unstable. Periodic racist/xenophobic riots. Lack of social interaction between Koreans and westerners. -9

Korea total score......6

Japan pro: Clean, modern, developed. Excellent infrastructure. Can drink tap water. Polite, friendly people. Beer machines. 8

Japan con: Outrageous cost of transportation. Hideously expensive restuarants. Drinking REALLY expensive, even at home. Short vacations. Working at Geos or Nova is something most people will not want to do. No benefits in most jobs. Score....-7

Japan total score.....1

Thus for me, anyway, Korean wins hands down.

But...I am married with kids. If you are a 20 something and want to have a good time, by all means head to Japan. You will not save much money but you will be treated like a superstar, have a gaggle of cute women around all the time and never be short on invites. Kind of like living in Seoul, actually. And notice I did not mention cold, draughty Japanese apartments....Brrrrr!
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sickboy



Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Location: Miari Texas

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you added the North Korean problem to the mix, would Korea still come out on top?

-1,000,000 points for Kim Jong Il like hair in Korea!
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Hotel Cheonan



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: Gwangju

PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2003 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only negative reason for me personally about Japan was that I was probably going to have to teach kids. I was lucky that I've never had to since I've been in Korea. Plus, I would have had to start over again, considering now that I'm working at a university.
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Roch



Joined: 24 Apr 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2003 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I went to Osaka, stayed very close to Kansai University, and found delicious food at an Indian restaurant ( all you can eat buffet with six different kinds of curry and nan bread to boot ) and a Western one (called the Cape Cod) which were FAR CHEAPER than any Indian or Western-themed place I know of here in Seoul.

I should not stop here: an American diner/cafe chain-and there are at least three of them near the university- sells all of its beer and coctails for 500 yen. Everthing on its menu (generous portions of good food!) was less than 700 yen. Tall cans of tasty Japanese beer (about 24 ounces or so) were about 320 yen at the stores and in the vending machines.

Subways and taxis are killers, but the numerous bargains can't be overlooked: Adidas sneakers and a cool pair of retro mid-seventies Converse running shoes were 3,200 yen; good quality dress shirts were about 2,500 yen; a nice hotel room at least as good as those that go for 55-60,000 won per night in Seoul can be had for about the same price in Osaka; real Italian wood grilled pizza at the Pausa Italian Restaurant (a chain restaurant) was 500 yen (at LaTravola in I'taewon, the same thing, which tastes not quite as good, cost 13,500 won in April, 2002); very good quality Japanese soap costs 100 yen at a 7-11 type store, and their U.S. brand name razors and shampoo are quite cheaper than same stuff sold at any of the Buy The Way and Family Mart stores I've been to in Seoul; two hamburgers, an apple pie, a Coke, and a large order of fries cost about 400 yen at McDonald's; and, sixteen ounce Pepsi Cola and awesome "C.C. Lemon" drinks cost 120 yen in all of the vending machines I patronized throughout the city.

Further, I read all sorts of ads for approximately 20 pyoung apartments which cost 50,000 per month (rent negotiable), ones which do not need a guarantor/backer. Additionally, the Nova School over by the university is looking for instructors. They will pay an inexperienced instructor 250,000 yen per month, provide an apartment and other benefits, and the teacher can get a three year visa.

A polite and smart guy from Tasmania, who frequently visits his wife and son in Seoul, has lived in Osaka for the past ten years and told me that prices for almost everything have dropped big time due to the on-going recession.

Osaka, at least, does not come out looking that bad in comparison to Seoul. Oh, lest I forget, the people I met throughout Osaka were, almost without exception, free of hostility towards the presence of foreigners in their midst. Perhaps the most notable aspect of my three day trip was noticing that there was not even one example of reckless driving. Indeed, motorists appear to respect pedestrians and the traffic laws. Those on bikes gave their bike bells a polite little ring as they approached people in front of them on the streets (unlike here where a jaunt down the street is akin to putting your own physical safety at risk). So, there was a noticeable absence of motorcycles, scooters, and cars driving on the city's streets.
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