Korean Job Discussion Forums

[dg611]

Recently, over at www.efl-law.org, there has been some talk about trying to clean up some of the misleading job postings here at daves, at Pusanweb and a few other notable job posting boards. The general feeling is that something can be done to help inform some unsuspecting teachers who search these job boards from getting involved in jobs that are do not meet Korean Labor Standards or are otherwise illegal. We understand Dave is running a business and such changes do not come easily. But it would be nice to see how the general Dave's crowd views the situation. Pusanweb put up a poll on their forum...but I didn't see dave put one up here (it is entirely possible i missed it, if so I apologize)....So being the kind of person I am...I thought I would how the general public would respond.

Recently, The EFL-Law Guy sent a letter to Dave to discuss this matter. Please read the letter and let us (and hopefully Dave) know how you feel about it. You can find the letter at http://efl-law.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1143....

I personally would like to see some of these leaders in the ESL job board industry to take a stand against the illegal, disreputable, and dishonest recruiters and schools and make a more concerted effort to get the word out to the potential teachers that there is a lot of dishonesty going on here in Korea and a lot of teachers are getting screwed over in the process...I think if we just chip away at some of the bad ones...we can really help to improve the working conditions here....but that's just me....
what do you think?

[peppermint]

Who is going to investigate these schools to insure that they are up to scratch? Dave would have to pay someone to do it for him, and increase ad prices to cover it. Will schools want to pay the higher prices? probably not.


Bottom line, these types of forums provide the kind of warning about Korea in general you're describing and are both more affordable and less work intensive for a website owner.

[chronicpride]

[Bulsajo]

[chronicpride]

EFL-Law guy is saying that he is doing this on behalf of 3800+ teachers, but no one is really clear on where that figure is from or if they actually support the initiative. He says that he's fed up with the lack of progress in ailing this ailments of this industry, so he's trying to take it to the sites now.

Sure, he's lost his patience, who hasn't? But it just doesn't look like this was very well thought out.

[Gord]

[TheUrbanMyth]

But who is at EFL that they have so much pull with the labour board? If I were Dave I'd just send them back a letter telling them "Ok go ahead. You lobby the labour board to block my site, and I'll lobby them to block yours." Then I'd start sending e-mails to all recruiters and employers that have posted on my site and ask for their support. I'd also e-mail the owners of the other sites and suggest that we contact as many employers and recuiters as we can and get THEM to lobby the labour board. I bet the hakwons and the recruiters would be willing to help. After all if no one knows that you are hiring then it's hard to get a foreigner for your school. As for the recruiters this would also hurt their business.

Then get some legal help and send a letter to EFL telling them that if they wish to proceed with this nonsense, they will face numberous lawsuits over this issue. You can sue for defamation and loss of income and damage to one's liveihood. I doubt EFL would be so willing to push the issue then.

[dbee]

But I thought that dave's and efl-law were friends ?

Don't you just hate it when large money-making corporations can't just get along ??

Isn't efl-law now owned by Time Taylor Inc. ?
The original guy sold it to them and made a stack of cash right ??

I really don't understand what exactly they want dave to do here. I mean he runs a message board for job postings. Surely it's up to the people who apply for the jobs to investigate whether they are legit or not ??

Is this a moral stance, or an attempt to introduce as many prosecutable laws and binding contracts into the industry as possible. With the aim of opening up the industry so that lawyers get their slice at some stage in the future.

I say that if efl-law want to run a board that adheres to strict rules, then why don't they open up their own ? and let the market (ie. teachers) decide which one has a place and which one doesn't ?

[peppermint]

I think they tried that, and it didn't work out for some reason. Perhaps not enough schools met the standards?

[Bulsajo]

Q: Can you sue a newspaper (in America/Korea/Canada) over a misleading job ad that somebody paid to place in its classified section?
I.E. Is a newspaper legally required to have that level of accountability and fact checking for their classified ads?
I don't think so.
And if newspapers don't, then why would an internet site offering a similar service be held to such an unreasonable standard?

It seems to me that going after Dave's or Pusanweb is taking the easy way out, or attampting a half-assed solution without actually fixing the real cause of the problem:
Employers who don't live up to the job conditions they advertise, and employers whose job conditions violate Korean labour Laws.

For Dave to meet those standards he'd need an army of fact checkers on the ground and he'd literally have to shut down ESLcafe if he had to meet those standards. If that's what you want to acheive you might as well just come right out and say it, and- if that ever happens- watch the dozen or more websites pop up to take its place...

Honestly, EFL-Law is a great service but this just seems like the dumbest idea; It reminds me of the IMF campaign where Koreans were discouraging people from using the 'close door' button on elevators in order to conserve electricity.

[dg611]

Though I am behind the EFLLawguy in his pursuit of something substantial...I too believe that the possibility of monitoring is a bit far fetched...and I would not blame dave for trying to keep his revenue the best he can...but it would help if there were just some way for the people who do look on these boards that have no clue what is waiting for them...could have some information shoved in their face that will potentially save their ass....if they refuse to heed the advice....that is their choice.

One step further, dave could have recruiters fill in more information (phone, business numbers, web addresses, etc) in order to post...that would have to help a little...no? If they are legitimate...then they should have no problem posting the information...if they are suspect and dave posts anyway...someone could have their life ruined by the presence of that ad here...i don't pretend to know dave but I would like to think he would do what he could to avoid that.

would also be nice to see dave chime in here on his own boards:)

[Red]

[Ya-ta Boy]

I haven't read the efl.law site, so I'm not sure just what is being proposed. If what is being suggested is for ads to be classified or rated, then I don't see much of a problem. It wouldn't be too difficult to make a list of questions that determine if an ad gets 5 stars or only 3 stars. One way to do it would be to have a standard format for all ads (probably one format for hakwons, another format for universities, etc.)

While I'm at it, I'd love to see the ads separated into categories. All kiddie hakwons grouped together, all adult hakwons, etc.

[BigBlackEquus]

Ha, well, personally, I'd rather he just figure out how to fix the inordinate numbers of phbb Can't Connect to the Database errors I get!

[TheUrbanMyth]