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gdimension
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Location: Jeju
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 Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 2:59 pm Post subject: Did rumors "help kill" Katrina victims? |
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It seems, at least according to reason.com, that many of the worst stories that we have heard over the past week are nothing more than just stories (Note: this doesn't include looting and the last incident on the bridge of aid workers taking fire.)
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All along Hurricane Katrina's Evacuation Belt, in cities from Houston to Baton Rouge to Leesville, Louisiana, the exact same rumors are spreading faster than red ants at a picnic. The refugees from the United States' worst-ever natural disaster, it is repeatedly said, are bringing with them the worst of New Orleans' now-notorious lawlessness: looting, armed carjacking, and even the rape of children.
"By Thursday," the Chicago Tribune's Howard Witt reported, "local TV and radio stations in Baton Rouge...were breezily passing along reports of cars being hijacked at gunpoint by New Orleans refugees, riots breaking out in the shelters set up in Baton Rouge to house the displaced, and guns and knives being seized."
The only problem—none of the reports were true.
..." |
Later it gets to the "help kill" part:
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And it's entirely possible that, like the chimeric Baton Rouge hordes, exaggerations about New Orleans' criminality affected policy, mostly by delaying rescue operations and the provision of aid.
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Even the story I heard so much about...a child getting raped and killed at the Superdome - no witnesses, no bodies, and no relatives of the victim have been found.
As far as these horrific stories are concerned, reality may have been better than what we have been led to believe. It seems the complete breakdown in reliable communication systems, coupled with the general chaos, has led to the rumor mill taking off at a furious pace. Add to that the fact that the media likes to report sensational items and we, generally, like to read them (no matter how much we say, "Isn't that horrible?"). The situation certainly doesn't lend itself well to uncovering the truth.
The full article from reason.com is here. |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 3:29 pm Post subject: Re: Did rumors "help kill" Katrina victims? |
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| Well said mate. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: Did rumors "help kill" Katrina victims? |
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| gdimension wrote: |
It seems, at least according to reason.com, that many of the worst stories that we have heard over the past week are nothing more than just stories (Note: this doesn't include looting and the last incident on the bridge of aid workers taking fire.)
The full article from reason.com is here. |
Your own phrase, "at least according to reason.com" most likely says all we need to know. It will be interesting to note if any credible, read non-extremist or non-aligned agency reports the same. Given that this is a right wing site and that the only other people I've heard say the reports were nothing but rumors are the head of homeland security and that paragon of virtue, Tom Delay. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: Did rumors "help kill" Katrina victims? |
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| gdimension wrote: |
It seems, at least according to reason.com, that many of the worst stories that we have heard over the past week are nothing more than just stories (Note: this doesn't include looting and the last incident on the bridge of aid workers taking fire.)
The full article from reason.com is here. |
Your own phrase, "at least according to reason.com" most likely says all we need to know. It will be interesting to note if any credible, read non-extremist or non-aligned agency reports the same. Given that this is a right wing site and that the only other people I've heard say the reports were nothing but rumors are the head of homeland security and that paragon of virtue, Tom Delay. |
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gdimension
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Location: Jeju
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: Did rumors "help kill" Katrina victims? |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| gdimension wrote: |
It seems, at least according to reason.com, that many of the worst stories that we have heard over the past week are nothing more than just stories (Note: this doesn't include looting and the last incident on the bridge of aid workers taking fire.)
The full article from reason.com is here. |
Your own phrase, "at least according to reason.com" most likely says all we need to know. It will be interesting to note if any credible, read non-extremist or non-aligned agency reports the same. Given that this is a right wing site and that the only other people I've heard say the reports were nothing but rumors are the head of homeland security and that paragon of virtue, Tom Delay. |
I wonder if you read the article, or just saw that it came from reason.com and figured it wouldn't be worth it? I can't imagine that you read it and replied the way you did...
From the article:
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| "We don't have any substantiated rapes," New Orleans Police superintendent Edwin Compass said yesterday, according to the Guardian. "We will investigate if the individuals come forward." The British paper further pointed out that, "While many claim they happened, no witnesses, survivors or survivors' relatives have come forward. Nor has the source for the story of the murdered babies, or indeed their bodies, been found. And while the floor of the convention centre toilets were indeed covered in excrement, the Guardian found no corpses." |
Is the Guardian too right wing for you?
Or this:
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| Relief efforts ground to a halt last week after reports circulated of looters shooting at helicopters, yet none of the hundreds of articles I read on the subject contained a single first-hand confirmation from a pilot or eyewitness. The suspension-triggering attack—on a military Chinook attempting to evacuate refugees from the Superdome—was contested by Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman Laura Brown, who told ABC News, "We're controlling every single aircraft in that airspace and none of them reported being fired on." |
This seems like it could even come from a "left wing" source:
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| Try as we might, it's almost impossible to avoid seeing any major event through the lens of our own prejudices and worldview. France-bashers were ready to slam Paris for being stingy about hurricane aid even before, you know, actually checking to see whether it was true (it wasn't). |
Those damn right-wingers stickin' it to France again!
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| If federal government officials can't even get their ass-covering justifications straight, let alone such non-trivial, easy-to-discern matters as whether there are indeed thousands of water-deprived refugees massed at a Convention Center, those stranded near the epicenter will likely be starved for information that could literally save their lives. |
There they go, letting Bush and his cronies off of the hook again...
I don't always agree with that website, but it seemed to me that they did their homework at least as well as any of the "main stream media" and printed a "reason"able article with links to their primary sources. |
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jinglejangle
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Location: Far far far away.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Forgive me if I have a difficult time believing that the military paused evacuation operations because their air crews heard a rumor that they were taking fire.
I find it equally difficult to believe of most of the people who were brave enough to go into that city, who 'rumored' that they were being shot at.
Could be wrong. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:37 pm Post subject: Re: Did rumors "help kill" Katrina victims? |
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| gdimension wrote: |
| I wonder if you read the article, or just saw that it came from reason.com and figured it wouldn't be worth it? I can't imagine that you read it and replied the way you did... |
Dude, relax! And I did read it. I didn't say there were no rumors, I said I'd like to see more credible reporting on the issue. Of course there are bound to be rumors. That said, none of the quoted statements are factual debunkings. It's an on-going thing and the people who would be the eyewitnesses are scattered to the four winds. It will be some time before we know the reality, and even then many, many stories will never be heard because people simply want to move, can't be located, are dead, etc., etc. I don't much care if the rumors are true or not. It simply isn't important to the situation. Hey, if these things can be confirmed, fine. If not, all the better as we can all have a little more faith in humanity.
The real proiblem here is that the spinsters are not just working to confirm crimes, but are looking to blame the slow response on these rumors. As the poster above pointed out, the military not going into a zone because they were being shot at, for example, is ludicrous. And if it happened, someone whould be court martialed.
| gdimension wrote: |
| I don't always agree with that website, but it seemed to me that they did their homework at least as well as any of the "main stream media" and printed a "reason"able article with links to their primary sources. |
Okie-doke. |
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gdimension
Joined: 05 Jul 2005
Location: Jeju
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| jinglejangle wrote: |
Forgive me if I have a difficult time believing that the military paused evacuation operations because their air crews heard a rumor that they were taking fire.
I find it equally difficult to believe of most of the people who were brave enough to go into that city, who 'rumored' that they were being shot at.
Could be wrong. |
From http://www.abc.net.au
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Looting hampers New Orleans rescue effort
Authorities suspended an evacuation of New Orleans after a reported shooting at a US military helicopter and President George W Bush urged "zero tolerance" for lawlessness in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. |
Full article here.
I could be wrong, as well.
I quoted the article and started this thread merely because it was the first attempt I had seen to try and substantiate many of the claims of the last week or so.
I suppose it is only with time that the full truth (or the closest approximation to it, considering the chaotic conditions) comes out. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.heraldsun.com/tools/printfriendly.cfm?StoryID=643298
3 Duke students tell of 'disgraceful' scene
By Ray Gronberg, The Herald-Sun
September 4, 2005 9:36 pm
DURHAM -- A trio of Duke University sophomores say they drove to New Orleans late last week, posed as journalists to slip inside the hurricane-soaked city twice, and evacuated seven people who weren't receiving help from authorities.
The group, led by South Carolina native Sonny Byrd, say they also managed to drive all the way to the New Orleans Convention Center, where they encountered scenes early Saturday evening that they say were disgraceful.
"We found it absolutely incredible that the authorities had no way to get there for four or five days, that they didn't go in and help these people, and we made it in a two-wheel-drive Hyundai," said Hans Buder, who made the trip with his roommate Byrd and another student, David Hankla.
Buder's account -- told by cell phone Sunday evening as the trio neared Montgomery, Ala., on their way home -- chronicled a three-day odyssey that began when the students, angered by the news reports they were seeing on CNN, loaded up their car with bottled water and headed for the Gulf coast to see if they could lend a hand. |
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ChimpumCallao
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: your mom
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| reason is libertarian, not right-wing. learn the difference. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2005 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| ChimpumCallao wrote: |
| reason is libertarian, not right-wing. learn the difference. |
Hollywoodaction isn't American. Now ask me if I care. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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6,644 are still missing after Katrina; toll may rise
By Kevin Johnson, USA TODAY
Tue Nov 22, 7:08 AM ET
The whereabouts of 6,644 people reported missing after Hurricane Katrina have not been determined, raising the prospect that the death toll could be higher than the 1,306 recorded so far in Louisiana and Mississippi, according to two groups working with the federal government to account for victims.
Most of those who remain listed as unaccounted-for 12 weeks after the storm probably are alive and well, says Kym Pasqualini, chief executive officer of the National Center for Missing Adults. She says they are listed as missing because government record-keeping efforts haven't caught up with them in their new locations.
However, Pasqualini says those counting the victims are particularly concerned about an estimated 1,300 unaccounted-for people who lived in areas that were heavily damaged by Katrina, or who were disabled at the time the storm hit.
The fact that authorities haven't been able to determine what happened to them suggests that the death toll from Katrina could climb significantly.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/6644arestillmissingafterkatrinatollmayrise;_ylt=Ai3x3j5n7IY9GapUHv1Bg.9H2ocA;_ylu=X3oDMTA3MjBwMWtkBHNlYwM3MTg- |
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