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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:56 am Post subject: French Jews fleeing France |
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French Jews are leaving the country in ever-growing numbers, fleeing a wave of anti-Semitism. They are moving to Israel, the United States, and increasingly, Montreal -- where the mostly English-speaking Jewish community is preparing for its greatest demographic change in decades. In the first of three stories, Mireille Silcoff examines the fear in France that is driving the emigration.
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Lengthy but excellent article:
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:24 am Post subject: |
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The rise of the Al-Aqsa Intifada in 2000 sparked a wave of mainly Muslim-led, anti-Jewish violence in France that has since brought forth thousands of hateful acts aimed at French Jews and their places of business, study, recreation, prayer and burial.
Ah, the joys of muslim immigration! |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:24 am Post subject: Re: French Jews fleeing France |
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| Alias wrote: |
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French Jews are leaving the country in ever-growing numbers, fleeing a wave of anti-Semitism. They are moving to Israel, the United States, and increasingly, Montreal -- where the mostly English-speaking Jewish community is preparing for its greatest demographic change in decades. In the first of three stories, Mireille Silcoff examines the fear in France that is driving the emigration.
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Lengthy but excellent article:
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Great article..
Another city mentioned often in that same article is MIAMI.. believe it or not, I was looking at a website on the 'predominate religions of Miami'.. and 22% of Miami are of the Jewish religion!!
You can't see it in the 'race' aspect of US census though, as they legally are classified as 'white'.. but you see it in the religion stats. A lot of Jewish in Miami are also predominately coming from Latin America as well as New York.
French Jewish to Montreal makes a lot more sense though.
But yeah 5000-6000 Jewish in France compared to five or six MILLION muslims in France.. and just the entire anti-Israel pro-Palestine stance thats so rampant in a country like France in particular.. makes sense. |
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Harpeau
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Location: Coquitlam, BC
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| Wow! Interesting article. Hey Bulsajo. You're in Montreal, right? Have you noticed much of a change happening in the Jewish community? |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| Interesting article..that is sickening- the french govt turns a blind eye to victimisation of jews, and allows muslim youths to continue uncontrolled rioting for weeks...all this after painting itself as the champion of Islam in Europe for years. |
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AbbeFaria
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:37 am Post subject: |
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I really try to be open-minded towards muslims, especially when I read stuff like that, because my gut reaction is to condem all of them. The problem comes in that the ones that are "moderate" that don't hate jews or christians or want to launch jihad on anyone, they almost never speak out against the ones that do. Therefore their entire religion gets painted with the same extremist brush because there is almost no dissent in their ranks. Muslims scream and rant and bomb things trying to get equal treatment, but how often to they give it? That's probably been mentioned before, but it bears repeating. It's really disgusting.
And France...France really is an aging old woman, blind to everything but what she wants to see and hear. The way it's going it will be a muslim state in a couple of decades. They'll have re-conquered by immigration and high birth-rates what they lost in the crusades. I'm not at all ashamed to say that another muslim power in the world makes me extremely nervous. I don't like France, but I'd hate to see it fall in to the hands of Islam.
-S- |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| Well,I'm sure they aren't all moving to Montreal just because of antisemitism in France. |
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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:11 am Post subject: |
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| The French do not seem to view this as a French problem but as a Middle Eastern problem. This is really sad since many Jewish families have been in France for centuries. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| Harpeau wrote: |
| Wow! Interesting article. Hey Bulsajo. You're in Montreal, right? |
No I'm 2 hours away. Unless Kettleman's or Schwartz's closes down I wouldn't notice anything. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Jewish dude from Paris moves to Montreal; it's the morning and it's time to go to work. Pull back the curtains!
BeingcoldisbetterthanbeingpersecutedbeingcoldisbetterthanbeingpersecutedBeingcoldisbetterthanbeingpersecutedchatterchatterchatterwhere'sthebus........ |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| they almost never speak out against the ones that do. |
I was watching a DVD of "The West Wing" last night...the episode after 9/11. Sorkin (the writer) made a good point: Islamic extremists are to Islam as the KKK is to Christianity.
Beyond shaking your head in disgust, it's pretty hard to take on extremists head to head. Only people who are as articulate as the extremist spokesmen can do it successfully.
While I was at home this past year I was heartened to see the media giving a variety of articulate, attractive Moslems a public forum to state more moderate views. More of it needs to be done, but it has started. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Islamic extremists are to Islam as the KKK is to Christianity. |
They're not, for a number of reasons, and I would advise you to stop taking your cues from the West Wing, although it must be nice for you to imagine Martin Sheen becoming President and stopping genocides in Africa.
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| While I was at home this past year I was heartened to see the media giving a variety of articulate, attractive Moslems a public forum to state more moderate views. |
Yes, they're quite articulate aren't they? Sitting there in their Italian suits and hoodwinking well meaning liberals into believing all kinds of nonsense about Islam and terrorism. Some of them are no doubt fairly moderate. The others, such as Iqbal Sacranie and Tariq Radaman are smooth talking supporters of Shariah and apologists for Islamic extremism, so don't be fooled by their talk of 'dialogue'. More importantly, how representative are the moderate, Western educated intellectuals you see on your television. The answer is not very. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| They're not, for a number of reasons |
Would you care to enumerate some of these differences?
David Duke and I are both natives of the same country. He in no way represents my views or interests. Judging by the way you lump all Moslems together, you would lump Dave and I together and expect us to have the same views just because of the accident of our birth. Life is much easier when it's viewed in black and white. It means you don't have to really think. You have a dangerously over-simplified view of the world.
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| how representative are the moderate, Western educated intellectuals you see on your television. The answer is not very. |
Would you care to explain what makes you such an expert on the moderate Moslem mind? You don't demonstrate much understanding of the moderate Western mind, so I find it quite interesting.
[/quote]Yes, they're quite articulate aren't they?
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Yes, some of them are. I'm surprised you admit it.  There is one in particular I was impressed with. He's an Iranian-American. I saw him twice. One was in an extended book discussion where he talked about his book. The frustrating thing is that I wrote his name and his book title on a scrap of paper and then promptly lost the paper.
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apologists for Islamic extremism
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In most cases I object to the media giving fringe ideas free exposure. It creates the appearance that their ideas are common. Come to think of it, without the media coverage, David Duke would be nothing more than a name in a phone book. Probably much the same as with that nationalist party in Britain. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Would you care to enumerate some of these differences? |
Off the top of my head:-
1. The KKK are active (and not that active) in only one Christian country, whereas Islamic extremists are active in many muslim nations.
2. The Islamic ideology of Jihad that the terrorists use to justify their campaigns is part of mainstream Islam, and their goals, albeit perhaps not their methods, enjoy widespread support in the Islamic world.
3. There is very little in the example of Christ, or mainstream Christian teaching that justifies the agenda of the KKK. There is plenty in the example of Mohammed and mainstream Islamic teaching to give succour to Islamic extremists.
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| Judging by the way you lump all Moslems together |
I have not lumped all muslims together. I have simply stated the facts. Islamic extremist aims are in sync with a large section of the muslim populace, and they gain their justification from mainstream Islamic doctrine. To say that they are as unrepresentative and as much of a 'fringe' movement as the KKK is total ignorance.
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| You have a dangerously over-simplified view of the world. |
That's you I'm afraid. All religions are the same, and all of them have the same problems with extremism. That is essentially what you are saying. If that is not simplistic, ahistorical 'ignorant of the facts' garbage, I don't know what is.
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| Would you care to explain what makes you such an expert on the moderate Moslem mind? |
Those moderate, Western educated muslims you see on TV are not representative of the muslim world in general. If they were, it would be a relative oasis of liberalism, democracy and universal human rights. It is not, and hence such 'moderates' who wax lyrical about 'tolerance', 'human rights' and 'democracy' are either:-
a) Telling the white man what he wants to hear, and which you lap up.
b) Not really very representative of what the man in Karachi or Cairo thinks about such topics.
I wish their were more of such true moderates (and not the fake Tariq Ramadan types) in the Islamic world, but unfortunately there are not. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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Off the top of my head:-
1. The KKK are active (and not that active) in only one Christian country, whereas Islamic extremists are active in many muslim nations.
2. The Islamic ideology of Jihad that the terrorists use to justify their campaigns is part of mainstream Islam, and their goals, albeit perhaps not their methods, enjoy widespread support in the Islamic world.
3. There is very little in the example of Christ, or mainstream Christian teaching that justifies the agenda of the KKK. There is plenty in the example of Mohammed and mainstream Islamic teaching to give succour to Islamic extremists.
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1. If you take KKK as a literal reference to one expression of a mind-set, then you are right. If you take them as one representative of right-wing racist extremists, then that phenomenon is present in radical Aryan groups all over Western Europe.
2. When is the last time Moslems declared a jihad? Was it during the Algerian liberation struggle? Was it before that when European colonial powers occupied nearly the whole of the Moslem world?
I think it's safe to say that this is not a commonly known fact. Please educate us on the frequency of jihads.
3. This has been debated ad nauseum. As practiced over the last 2000 years, there is plenty in Christianity to rationalize killing people who don't agree with you. It's my contention that killing in the name of religion is a distortion of the best instincts of all religions but an all too frequent occurance in the practice of all major religions. |
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