Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Bee Positive]

Question:

Do you socialize with your adult students outside of class?

If so, do you find it to be rewarding?

I taught adult conversation in Seoul for two years, and now do a bit of it Busan in addition to teaching children. (All strictly legal, since it's within the same hakwon and at the same location.)

Socializing with these adult students outside of class has time and time again proven to be intensely uncomfortable, boring, stultifying, and worse than useless.

Allow me to elaborate:

After a few weeks or so of getting to know a batch of new adult students in class, someone suggests that we all get together and go drinking on a Friday night.

This should be fun, right? I'm initially quite happy at the suggestion.

What happens, however, is that culture shock takes over.

As a Westerner, I tend to think of a bar as a place to "let my hair down," relax, ease up on inhibitions a bit, talk freely with others in an alcohol-massaged milieu of low-stress, toned-down, relaxed informality.

With Koreans, the exact opposite seems to happen. (Though I'll grant that this is as seen through MY eyes, as a Westerner, and is thus radically subjective.)

Relaxation? Forget it! You've got to be hyperalert each and every second to whether or not someone's glass has been emptied, careful to use two hands in pouring, careful not to raise your glass too high when clinking glasses, etc., etc.

No matter how drunk you may get with your adult students, in my experience, the TINIEST little thing will destroy the atmosphere, such as it is, if you're not hyper-careful.

For instance, I once made the mistake of pouring out the remainder of a pitcher of beer into the NEARLY EMPTY glasses of a couple of my adult students.

An awkward silence ensued. Countenances fell. One of the offended parties piously informed me that I had just insulted his dead ancestors by pouring into a glass which had been left not-quite-empty in their memory.

KID YOU NOT, FOLKS! THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED!

The reason I bring up the topic now is that I made the mistake of agreeing to lunch at [a popular Western restaurant which we all know and love] with my adult students earlier today.

What a mistake!

First of all, all the food had to be shared (as one of them condescendingly informed me, with a lecture about how "we Koreans share everything," blah blah blah). I ended up with a plate full of stuff that I'm allergic to set in front of me, while the dish I had ordered went down to the other end of the table, and everyone made a great fuss out of my not eating.

Sorry folks, but I'm almost tempted to burst into profanities here. Dave's won't allow it, so I'll substitute $$$.

"$$$ it! What the $$$ing $$$ did you intend in inviting me to lunch today? Hunh? HUNH? I can't even eat something that might agree with me, can't sit in peace without being goaded endlessly about my pickiness . . . What the bleeping $$$!!!! Why the bleeping $$$ do you think that I ordered X and not Y or Z? Possibly because--err--that's what I wanted to eat? Possibly because I'm allergic to shrimp and don't do well with chicken??? IDIOTS!"

I know: I'm sounding cranky. I'm sounding like a nut. I'm sounding hyper-aggrieved.

But am I asking for too much, really?

How about this scenario:

We go to a restaurant or a bar. We order what we want, eat what we want, drink what we want, AND RELAX. Without unnecessary adverse criticism about how the $$$ drinks should be served, or how much seonsaeng-nim is or isn't eating, and so on.

I HAVEN'T EVEN GOTTEN TO THE CONVERSATION!

Can we let down our guards and talk a bit freely? FORGET IT! Levels of formality are hightened beyond what you get in the classroom. (Where before I might have been simply "[my first name]," I'm now being referred to as seonsaeng-nim, and so on.)

The initial conversation in English quickly gives way, after an apology or two, to full-on Korean.

My Korean, let it be known, is not all that shabby after 5 years in country, and I understand a lot of what's being said. Still, the fact that I'm effectively being left out of the conversation seems to disturb no one, in spite of the fact that I'm being treated as some sort of guest of honor.

I could go on and on and ON and ON and ON . . .

To top it ALL off:

One of my adult students, believe it or not, is a former hakwon director.

She regaled us at lunch today with the story of how she blacklisted an American teacher of hers (in addition to sueing her!) in an account that left me feeling deeply sympathetic to the very-likely-wronged teacher in question, and angry as the $$$ at my ajumma-ex-hakwon-director-student.

In brief summary:

This country NEVER relaxes. Forget about enjoying a night out. Or even a lunch out. Not here, not in Korea.



BEE POSITIVE

[cellphone]

[cellphone]

[Wrench]

I don't socialize with any of my students I don't even respond to them outside of class.

First they are too young and two I have permenantly damaged my vocal chords I don't talk if I don't have too.

Although I think lots of my kids can hold a longer conversation then a Korean that has been studying english for 6 years.

After 5 years of being here you should have realized that Koreans couldn't give a flying rat's ass about friendship. All they want is to use you for your English.

[Pak Yu Man]

You'd think they'd want to learn your culture as wel as your language.

If I go out with some of the Uni students...I can do whatever the hell I want to. Get them pouring their own drinks, using one hand...not looking away.

If you go out again with your 'adults' tell them it's your way or the highway.

[Ya-ta Boy]

I hear what you are saying. Going out with whole groups tends not to be all that much fun...unless you learn to manipulate it to your benefit.

#1. Relax about watching every glass. Someone else will do it. I watch when it occurs to me, but I'm not compulsive about it.

I do enjoy the two-handed bit. I'm older so I don't have to use two hands with anyone unless I want to. In new group situations, I always pour with two hands because it makes the receiver accept with two hands. I like to watch their styles. Some people are very graceful. Others are not. With my friends, I don't do that. I tell them to relax and use just one.

When my glass is empty and I want more, I ask, "Why did the KCIA guy shoot President Park?" Someone will scramble to fill your glass. (The answer to the question: "Because the prez didn't keep his soju glass filled.")

I don't quite get the bit about the dead ancestor thing. Did you fill a glass that was just sitting on the table? I only fill a glass that someone is holding. And I ask if they want more.

#2. The conversation. This is the tricky part. A) I figure out who I want to talk to and when people are arranging themselves around the table I tell the selected ones to sit next to me/across the table because "I have something I want to ask/talk to you about". This has worked for me. (I learned early on that as the guest I get stuck in the middle and would often get surrounded by the oldest, but not most interesting students.)

B) After the food is gone and people are just sitting and drinking before going to e-cha, and I've talked to the interesting ones around me, I excuse myself and migrate around the table, pouring drinks and having a short chat with the B list people.

C) When they all get involved in a conversation that doesn't interest me or I can't follow, I sit back and relax and people watch, and think about conversation starters with people I want to talk to. Then I go do it.

#3. The food. I'm picky like you. I'm not alergic to shrimp but I tell them I'm allergic to seafood because I have zero interest in eating raw fish. I don't do pig intestines or chicken feet. I'm up-front about food at the time of the invitation.

My food at the wrong end of the table. This has almost happened to me. When the ajumma brings what I ordered and starts to deliver it to the wrong end, which is common, I interupt whatever is going on and 'demand' it be put on my part of the table. You are the teacher. You can do this without stepping on toes.

The short answer, be pro-active. It's my philosophy that Friday night drinking should be entertaining and sometimes I have to do some things to make it that way. Don't leave things to chance.

[Qinella]

[Hater Depot]

I had a handful af adult students at one time, and socialized with just one of them. She was a private English tutor, we went to a few bars and a baseball game. Nice lady, no weird issues to report at all. I think she did buy into a few 'evil foreigner' myths but was too polite to really bring it up.

[anyway]

In order to enjoy my outings with students, I always pretend that the meal will be my very last because I have been ordered in front of the firing squad. That usually helps me endure.

If that doesn't work and reality sinks back in, I slip off to the bathroom for a little glue huff.

Of course, there was that one time I took The Last Supper approach. I told them that they were drinking my blood and eating my bones and something about coming back from the dead. That was the last time they invited me, thank you Jesus.

[jlb]

Ya-Ta Boy....you're a genius at the Korean social activity! I'm very impressed.

[SarcasmKills]

I always go out with my students and have never had such problems as you.

My older students who had a job would always use drinking as an opportunity to let loose and tell me what's on their mind.. drinking is no doubt the number one stress reliever for Koreans in my experiences..

[bellum99]

I don't do it because I have better things to do with MY time. Adults quit in a short time and they never say good-bye. It sucks when you invest time in them and then they just didn't care.

[joe_doufu]

My last class on Tuesdays and Thursdays is an adult free-talking class. Adults are flaky, sometimes they come and sometimes I get to go home early. If only one student arrives, often I'll invite him (so far only men have come alone) to go out and have dinner with me. It's much more interesting than sitting around the classroom and "free talking" one on one, and I can save my voice a little. But... it's not really socializing, because I'm still on the clock, getting paid.

[schwa]

I quite frequently socialize with adults from my classes. I choose my friends among them by the same criteria I'd apply to people from anywhere, & I've made some dear friends. I've never found the eating & drinking rituals that onerous or that serious.

The OP claims Koreans dont relax. Look/mirror/self.

[matthews_world]