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oni
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:11 pm Post subject: Worlds First Starbucks strike in New Zealand |
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Just read about this on www.indymedia.org
Hopefully other worldwide employees will follow suit.
Fair trade coffee is the only way |
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seoulshock
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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They're tired of being raped!
inside joke |
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ChimpumCallao
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: your mom
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| Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: Worlds First Starbucks strike in New Zealand |
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| oni wrote: |
Just read about this on www.indymedia.org
Hopefully other worldwide employees will follow suit.
Fair trade coffee is the only way |
It's nice to see you are skimming the surface when it comes to 'issues', but how about learning about actual economics and how the world market works before you start trying to convert and proselytize on this board. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:10 am Post subject: |
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"Our campaign isn't just about fair pay at work, it's about social justice. Poverty-wages are increasing the gap between rich and poor and increasing other social inequalities. The majority of low paid and minimum wage workers are women, Maori, pacific islanders, disabled, youth, students and new migrants," said a union organiser.
The minimum wage is now the most important determining factor for low paid workers. Raising the minimum wage to $12 NOW, removing youth rates, giving secure hours and other minimum entitlements would be the first step towards reclaiming what entitlements workers have lost and alleviating poverty and inequality. |
That's really funny. Starbucks employees are demanding that the boss raise the minimum wage. Just how much influence do they think Starbucks has in that country? |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Why don't they just look for another fookin' job? |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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I have a friend who works for Starbucks in Daejeon. She makes 2,500 or 3,500 won per hour, I can't remember which. Either way, it's unbelievable. In one hour, she doesn't even earn enough to buy one of the lattes she makes.
But my friend who works at Starbucks in the US makes about $8.00 an hour, plus tips, which works out to about $10-11 an hour on an average morning. Big difference. |
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ChimpumCallao
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: your mom
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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have a friend who works for Starbucks in Daejeon. She makes 2,500 or 3,500 won per hour, I can't remember which. Either way, it's unbelievable. In one hour, she doesn't even earn enough to buy one of the lattes she makes.
But my friend who works at Starbucks in the US makes about $8.00 an hour, plus tips, which works out to about $10-11 an hour on an average morning. Big difference |
And how much do you think she would make at Prowstar?
The cost of living is different in the US and Daejon, as it is in most parts of the world, and salaries vary accordingly. ALSO, youth unemployment is MUCH higher here than in the US meaning there is a much higher supply of people willing to do those jobs here.
Here's what these people don't understand. If these morons succeed with their idealist strikes and get raises, it no longer becomes profitable for Starbucks to remain in business. So what happens? They close! And then EVERYONE loses a job. How fantastic.
The demanded rise in wages would also decrease expansion and eradicate countless jobs that would have been created by the opening of other Starbucks and the surrounding shops that open up to take up the overspill. At least thousands more potential jobs..GONE...because some teenager thinks he 'deserves' more money.
If these people think they are worth a certain wage, they should apply for jobs that pay said wages. No one is forcing them to work anywhere... |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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Minimum wage laws exist for a reason, Chimpum. If everyone could go out and get high-paying jobs, don't you think they would? Do you think unqualified, unskilled people don't deserve to earn a decent living for the work they do?
Haven't you ever read a history book? Haven't you heard about factories working people to death for almost no money? Your attitude of "no one is forcing them to work" is exactly the mentality that justified such treatment. (And no, I am not comparing working at Starbucks to working in a factory in 1900.)
Who cares what someone would make at Prowstar? That's irrelevant. I was talking about Starbucks because Starbucks' corporate theme is to treat employees as "partners" (they even call them "partners" in Korea), and the first paragraph of this post is part of the alleged corporate psychology with Starbucks. (I had friends in management who told me all about it, they were so proud.) So, in the US, they follow through with that ideal. In Korea, and apparently New Zealand, they do not.
Cost of living is the same in Daejeon as where I lived in the US (North Carolina). You can't argue that 2,500 won is equal to $11. That's simply not true.
Q. |
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shortskirt_longjacket
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Location: fitz and ernie are my raison d'etre
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| Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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Really, how many worlds is this strike taking place on?
Resistance is futile. Try a mocha frap. |
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plato's republic
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Ancient Greece
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| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:37 am Post subject: |
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| Wrong forum. |
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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:52 am Post subject: they're talking about politics! |
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| Oh... god.... don't..... get..... sucked....... in.......... |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| In one hour, she doesn't even earn enough to buy one of the lattes she makes. |
I don't think I make enough in an hour to buy one of those obscenely overpriced coffee drinks.
Many historians say the industrial revolution happened in Europe because labor became too expensive and scarce after the plagues. This is one of the unfortunate side effects of raising minimum wages; many companies on the edge of profitability simply hire fewer people, automate, or go under. I can't guarantee this would happen, but a possible result of Starbuck's strikes might be that they will simply be understaffed; not sure if anyone benefits in the long run if this happens.
Ken:> |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| ChimpumCallao wrote: |
Here's what these people don't understand. If these morons succeed with their idealist strikes and get raises, it no longer becomes profitable for Starbucks to remain in business. So what happens? They close! And then EVERYONE loses a job. How fantastic. |
Ah yes. Because Henry Ford and the Ford motor company went out of business when Ford doubled the wages of his employees. Ford had a theory. His workers should be able to buy the cars they build.
Cars can be outsourced today to China. But can you out source a Starbucks job? Many service jobs can't be out sourced. Manufacturing since Ford has always been considered the source of middle classed jobs for the great majority. But with out sourcing, that is becoming less the case. Will Western society simply roll over and go back to a land owner/peasant system? No. People in the service sector will demand better wages. Is that bad? If our cars and microwaves become cheaper and our coffee becomes more expensive, is there a net loss to us? |
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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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| Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| But with out sourcing, that is becoming less the case. Will Western society simply roll over and go back to a land owner/peasant system? No. People in the service sector will demand better wages. Is that bad? |
What you have to understand is that money has to come from somewhere, and I don't mean a printing press. If you create $5 of value but your boss is forced to pay you $8, that pay comes at the expense of the economy. It's not about what workers deserve but about what they earn. We have an (American) economy where a minority are creating wealth and the majority are leeching off it, primarily through taxation but also through extortion and corruption (aka labor unions). Do you think Americans are fundamentally inferior manufacturers to the Chinese and Indians? Of course not, in fact the opposite is probably true. But when American companies and workers are taxed nearly half of what they earn, it doesn't make sense for those who create wealth to create it in the USA. |
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