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huck
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:51 am Post subject: Bill Clinton |
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I started thinking when I saw how he condemned Bush over the environmental issues in Canada....Can you think of many people in the world who are more respected than Bill Clinton right now?
I mean, he was a great president, even with the whole scandal. But now since Bush has taken over, I think the level of respect for Clinton has really risen, now that we realize how bad a presidency can actually be.
I know that it probably would never happen, and he would be bound to overshadow her, but if Hilary were to run for President in 2008, and if she were to choose Bill as her running mate....I know that'd be enough for me to start voting again....and I'm not even a Democrat. |
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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| LOL. I was in Kyobo bookstore a couple weeks ago and saw a book on the shelves called "Condi vs. Hillary" (or maybe "Hilary vs. Condi"). About a hypothetical 2008 presidential contest between the two. I don't think it'll happen... I think it'll be Jeb-Condi vs. Hillary-somebodyelse... but I'm glad somebody else has had the same vision I've considered. |
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huck
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| Condi's an idiot.....I have nothing to back this up. It's more of a general feeling. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| huck wrote: |
| Condi's an idiot.....I have nothing to back this up. It's more of a general feeling. |
I loathe her politics, but I would describe her more as an intellectual hyper achiever than an idiot myself...  |
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antoniothegreat
Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Location: Yangpyeong
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 9:24 am Post subject: |
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the thing about CLinton, what did he really do? everyone says he was a great preisdent, but what were his accomplishments? the economy? ask any economist how much influence the president has on the economy... and the american economy boomed in the 90s a lot because of the internet boom. CLinton had no more to do with that than i did. and before you say the economy fell off when Bush took office, again, ask anyone who studies economics, the economy started to fall about a year and a half before the election, we just didnt really feel the full effects until after the election, so you can't blame that on Bush or credit Clinton.
so taking the economy out Clinton made great leaps in... umm... well.. ummm... not much, yeah, little legislation here and there, but nothing significant. Looking at all the major issues that democrats run on (abortion, anti-guns, social equality, welfare) he didn't really get much done.
I will say, he was amazing at getting people to like him. He goes inthe books as one of the best ever at spinning his image and making people think he was a good president (like Kennedy, everyone liked Kennedy). but going back to the issues, he was not great at all. all he did was NOT make anyone mad. yes, that is important, but the presiend should not let foreign policy be dictated by what other people will think.
you can agree with Bush or not on his policies, but he is doing what he thinks is best (some i agree with, some i dont) but Clinton only did what was popular, not what was best for the country.
before anyone starts on something like the assault weapons ban, yes, some legislation was passed... i am not saying nothing was done, just nothing significant. some presidents leave behind legacies for things they accomplished. Lincoln left a legacy. Roosevelt, Kennedy, Nixon, Reagan, George W will leave a legacy, we have to wait to see how it turns out. but Clinton? no, nothing. He will go down in the books like Ford as a guy that was president, and that was it. skip on to the next chapter.... |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| antoniothegreat wrote: |
you can agree with Bush or not on his policies, but he is doing what he thinks is best (some i agree with, some i dont) but Clinton only did what was popular, not what was best for the country.
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Excuse me, could you tell me where you got the special power of being able to see into the minds of Presidents? If there's a place where I could buy this power I'd be very interested in making a purchase... |
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Dan The Chainsawman
Joined: 05 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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Clinton was a fair enough president. Nothing to scream about but he did know all about cigars.
Economically he was savvy enough to take credit for a resurgent economy like any good politico. His foriegn policy had a lot to be desired but then again launching cruise missles at Iraq every few months seems a bit cheaper than a full scale war.
Though Slick Willy stodging off to Canada to bitch about GW. is hilarious. A move that might well bolster his popularity amongst our impoverished Northern neighboors. If he was smart he whip straight down to Mexico and announce his intention to have legislation introduced to provide hand rails to safely wade the Rio Grande. Old Slick Willy's place in history would truly be secure. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| the economy? ask any economist how much influence the president has on the economy... |
True. However, one of the ways presidents do exert influence is in general government economic policy. Clinton's policy was to get the deficit under control. He did that. By the end of his second term he (along with Congress) managed to produce a surplus.
The psychological importance of that to the overall economy is incalculable. The effects of the ballooning deficit under the present administration is creating the opposite effect. The psychological importance of that to the overall economy is also incalculable.
Clinton's legacy will be that he was instrumental in creating a great opportunity for the country to regain a secure economic future, and that that legacy was squandered by the next president. |
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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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One of Clinton's main campaign promises was to repeal the ban on gays in the military. As Commander In Chief he could have done it within five minutes of his inauguration, yet somehow he went eight years without doing it because "it would be unfeasible" which means "some people might dislike me for it" -- even though a majority of Americans had proven with their votes that they supported him. That's either a coward or a liar.
The Monica Lewinsky thing... I don't think anybody cares that he had a mistress, but what a weasel to lie about it! He should have said "That's none of your gosh durn business" like a real Arkansas plantation owner would have, not "No, I swear I didn't touch that woman" and get caught in a lie! Clinton is the #1 reason why Gore and Kerry lost their elections. Americans would rather have a bumbling but honest chimp than a sneaking weasel. |
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antoniothegreat
Joined: 28 Aug 2005
Location: Yangpyeong
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| the economy? ask any economist how much influence the president has on the economy... |
True. However, one of the ways presidents do exert influence is in general government economic policy. Clinton's policy was to get the deficit under control. He did that. By the end of his second term he (along with Congress) managed to produce a surplus.
The psychological importance of that to the overall economy is incalculable. The effects of the ballooning deficit under the present administration is creating the opposite effect. The psychological importance of that to the overall economy is also incalculable.
Clinton's legacy will be that he was instrumental in creating a great opportunity for the country to regain a secure economic future, and that that legacy was squandered by the next president. |
this is true, what Clinton did with the surplus was good, but creating the surplus was not his responsibility.
and there are some other good things other people said, I want to reiterate, i didnt say he was a terrible president (atleast i dont think i did....) but he was not a great president. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| One of Clinton's main campaign promises was to repeal the ban on gays in the military. |
You're right. He only established the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy which was just barely politically possible. I hope you've noticed that the opposition has not repealed that policy in the last 5 years when they have had the power to do so. |
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joe_doufu
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Elsewhere
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| Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2005 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| One of Clinton's main campaign promises was to repeal the ban on gays in the military. |
You're right. He only established the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy which was just barely politically possible. |
He was commander in chief of the military. It was a military policy, not a Law. He could have done it in five minutes but he copped out. "Politically possible" is a ridiculous statement, anyway... Clinton had just arrived in Washington with a majority of voters supporting him. He was a coward and/or a liar, there are no other explanations. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 1:58 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Ya-ta Boy"]
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| Clinton's legacy will be that he was instrumental in creating a great opportunity for the country to regain a secure economic future, and that that legacy was squandered by the next president. |
His legacy will more likely be making the term "a Lewinsky"
In future, that is likely to be the one event most closely associated in the minds of people when they hear or see the word "Clinton". |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| antoniothegreat wrote: |
you can agree with Bush or not on his policies, but he is doing what he thinks is best (some i agree with, some i dont) but Clinton only did what was popular, not what was best for the country.
before anyone starts on something like the assault weapons ban, yes, some legislation was passed... i am not saying nothing was done, just nothing significant. some presidents leave behind legacies for things they accomplished. Lincoln left a legacy. Roosevelt, Kennedy, Nixon, Reagan, George W will leave a legacy, we have to wait to see how it turns out. but Clinton? no, nothing. He will go down in the books like Ford as a guy that was president, and that was it. skip on to the next chapter.... |
Oh, BS. Clinton took a load of crap for wanting to do something significant to the screwed healthcare system and met nothing but opposition.
The Middle East? Would be nowhere close to where it is today (with regard to Isreal and the Palestinians) without his work. A breakthrough and creation of a Palestinian state didn't happen solely due to Arafat's power-mad ego.
The internet? No, they did't inven it, but rarely has a new technology been pushed so hard by any administration when it didn't involve icreasing the power alredy held in Washington.
Etc.
And these things happened in the midst of one of the most debilitating witchhunts in the history of politics.
Pull your partisan head out. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2005 2:13 am Post subject: |
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| joe_doufu wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| One of Clinton's main campaign promises was to repeal the ban on gays in the military. |
You're right. He only established the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy which was just barely politically possible. |
He was commander in chief of the military. It was a military policy, not a Law. He could have done it in five minutes but he copped out. "Politically possible" is a ridiculous statement, anyway... Clinton had just arrived in Washington with a majority of voters supporting him. He was a coward and/or a liar, there are no other explanations. |
I swear to god, if I didn't know you were in your twenties I'd think you were still in school... While you are correct that it is a military issue, you are out of your mind if you think it is not also a political one. AMERICANS are responsible for that crap, not Clinton. He had the guts to try do something whereas no other C-in-C had never had the balls. Or the ethics. |
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