Korean Job Discussion Forums

[indiercj]

There are a lot of koreans from different social, educational backgrounds who want to learn speaking english. Why do they do that? The speaking skill itself is not that broadly required to get a good job. They just need a high TOEIC score at best. What are the students' responds? On top of that, from my own experience there are a lot more of female students than male students. Why is that? Is it social status or some psychological satisfaction involved to this? Why is it that so many korean girls want to learn english while for most of them it just seems to be a pastime? I could be wrong but do your students have concrete goals to achive with english speaking skills?

[Tiberious aka Sparkles]

The high number of women studying English is (if you believe Beatnik's article) because they're not really interested in studying at all. They're all looking for a foreign husband.

That gives me an idea: start an English conversation/male escort service. I'll be rich!

(note to self: I already do this. Don't let the other posters know or they'll start stepping in on your territory)

Sparkles*_* (the ESL man hooker)

[hellofaniceguy]

Taking the lessons to learn to speak English is one thing but thousands of koreans take English lessons for YEARS and still can't hold a conversation in English! English is taught in Middle and High school plus university. You will be hard pressed to find 10 koreans out of a thousands who can hold an intelligent conversation in English. The same with koreans going to other countries to study English. I know of many koreans who have lived in North America for years studying English and still can't hold a conversation. I know of korean business owners who also have businessess in North America and can't speak English. They rely on interperters. Go figure.
We ALL know of students who have been taking lessons for years and years and still can't speak. Even at the university level and graduate school, it is difficult to find a handful who speak English well. Why do they study? Your guess is as good as mine. I suppose some hope to really learn but many university classes tell otherwise. Students sign up for classes and don't attend. Some do but most don't.

[dogbert]

[Homer]

Dogbest hit the nail on the head here.

One of the main reasons why Koreans have difficulty learning English is not ability or willingness but the lack of opportunity to practice it outside the classroom.

[matko]

Homer,

Then why do they go abroad and only hang out with other Koreans ?

[Homer]

Thats your assumption Matko.

A few of my korean friends have gone to the US and Canada to study or work and they did not stick to their communities. Of course, much like YOU and ME and most foreigners living in Korea or Japan, they need to stay in contact with their own culture. Thats just natural. A person needs that. Thats why wae-guks go to bars where there will be mosthy among foreigners while in Korea. Heck some wae-guks ghere will stick to a strict all foreigner diet while here.
Some Koreans abroad do stick to close to their communities but most don't "only hang out" with fellow Koreans.
But, you should see that immigrants or foreign students in a new country tend to reach out to their own. Thats just normal Matko.
Japanese do this too when they are in Canada and if there is a japanese community where they live.
Chinese do this too..heck it looks like most people do that Matko...

[matko]

Homer,

I taught in language schools in Vancouver for three years. My parents have done homestay for over 5. Koreans hang out together WAY more than other students who come to a country to learn English.

Of course people gravitate towards their own communities.

I am talking about Koreans who go abroad to STUDY and LEARN English. What do they do? Almost all of them hang out together, eat lunch together, and eventually live together.

Students from other countries almost always try to do the opposite. When they try to enter and communicate with the Korean "clique" they are more often than not shunned to a certain extent.

I knew some Koreans who tried to "mix" with other students, but they almost always ended up back in the clique. The examples of this from my experience are too numerous to post.

I am not posting this to be malicious. It's the truth.

I know my experience is not scientific fact, but, after 3 years, I figure it can't be far from the truth.

[jg]

[Manner of Speaking]

indiercj,

I work in an adult hogwan. The reasons are:

- English class in high school was boring, because it was all grammar and vocabulary. Now they need conversational English ability to get a job and they're taking classes to catch up.

- many of the students are English or Education majors, and they need conversational ability for their careers.

- TOEIC and TOEFL are changing, placing more emphasis on spoken and conversational ability.

- a lot of them are getting ready to do a year overseas, either in a language school, an internship or to do grad studies, so they need conversational english ability. Some have already been overseas, and want to keep up their english level once they get back.

- some are elementary, middle, or high school english teachers themselves, and they want to keep up their conversational english ability.

(I've met lots of Korean hogwan teachers who were great at teaching grammar or TOEIC test preparation, but couldn't string a sentence together to save their life. They're the ones who always hide at the photocopier whenever I walk down the hall.)

- SOME students, not all, go overseas and spend all their time talking to other Koreans. The smart ones avoid LA, NY, Toronto and Vancover and go to Regina, Phoenix, Kansas, Nova Scotia, etc., where they are forced to speak English all the time. The REALLY smart ones deny they are Korean when they meet other Koreans overseas (believe me, some of them do!)

- some are business people who study it for their jobs or professions. Last year I had one class where I had one dentist, one pharmacist, two professors of nursing, two medical students, and one professor of dentistry. Boy did I sweat on the first day of THAT class.

- some - many - have some difficulty with various idioms, native accents or speaking styles in English, and want to be exposed to various accents in one-on-one conversations.

- some, frankly, are intimidated by foreigners, and take conversational classes to meet others and to get over their fears.

- some take conversational English classes at their university, but there are 60 students in their class and get to talk to a native teacher once a week, so they take conversation classes to get more exposure and chances to speak.

- not all Koreans who study English have difficulty holding a conversation. I've had some students who were AMAZINGLY articulate in English, didn't need to be in a classroom. At least 30% of the students I've taught in the past 3 years could hold their own in a conversation with anyone on this board, IMHO.

[Trinny]

Why do I want to learn English conversation? The answer is so simple to me.

- I like the whole experience of speaking English and sharing idea with other people in my second language. It is much more intellectually challenging, yet rewarding than conversing in my first language-Korean.

- I like to show off to other people how smart I am. I like to see other people turning their heads at me speaking English with other native speakers. Unfortunately, you don't get that level of attention in Canada.

- English conversation class is one of the ways to socialize with English speakers and Koreans. At the end of the day, you become wary of "socializing" and wants to retreat to your own little space, though.

- Learning English will be a life-time journey for me. I am going to use Joseph Conrad as an example. You can't believe that this guy started learning English at the age of 20 and still wrote masterpieces of 20th centuries in English, yet you also notice the way he wrote is not quite the same as native speakers of English would usually write/or speak. Like Conrad, I will never get to the level of native speakers (Trin, don't let your head grow so big). But this also means there are always things I can learn and I can be better at.

- A little side note: Once you get immersed in the environment where you speak your second language 99% of the time, your first language is slowly getting affected and you don't really feel comfortable writing in your first language any more.

- To manner of speaking: Yes. I've been guilty of telling other Koreans that I am a Malaysian or Phillippina. And because of my exotic face, most Koreans I met never have any doubt about my fake nationality.

- To makto: some Koreans are hell bent on avoiding other Koreans to not interfere with their language learning process. You just don't see them around.

[jajdude]

My impression has been that Koreans are more exclusive than the few other nationalities I am familiar with. But their language and culture also seems more exclusive than many others too. Nonetheless the Chinese and Japanese aren't so different. It really is easier for English speakers to function in this world.

[mokpochica]

[mokpochica]

[matko]

jg,

I understand what you're talking about.

However, I wasn't really refering to long term residence of foreign countries. I am talking about the Korean students who go abraod to study for 3 months to a year. These are full time students who legally can't work and are in Canada for the sole purpose of studying.

Again, in my experience the Koreans who go to Canada either,

1. Don't care
2. Don't want to mix with other nationalities
3. Don't know how to mix with other nationalities

Of course not all of them, but it was such a large percentage compared to other students that I figure there must be a reason. What that reason is, I don't know.

Vancouver has a huge Chinese population and I found that the Chinese especially avoided other Chinese students and Chinese areas because they wanted to practice English. After all that's why they came. Why the Koreans do what they do, I don't know. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that each and every one of them will die if they don't eat Kimchee every day!!