Korean Job Discussion Forums

[The King of Kwangju]

For a few years now, I've been tossing around the idea of creating an online recruiter/hakwon database.

One of the problems, as I see it, with existing Grey/Blacklists is that the info is hard to search (or is not searchable at all), and that it has to pass thru webmasters to get online. These webmasters can be fickle or bullied or just plain lazy. People end up having to comb thru pages of outdated information to get what they need.

The solution is obvious - a database with a solid architecture that people can search, add to, and comment on. The gatekeepers of the info would be the ESL community itself.

Another problem is money. People hosting sites that are K-related often have to depend on advertising dollars of the very hakwons or recruiters that might be rated on the site. They are understandably reluctant to host negative information and cut off those dollars.

The solution is again, obvious - no compromises. Period. It all goes online.

I was building such a site with a database programmer, but other duties have taken him off track, and its been nearly 2 years getting made.

But I wonder if some of the people on this board might have resources to add to such a project?

I'm a web designer, and can easily do the design. When pressed, I can program .asp, .php, or .cfml. What I don't have is a server to host it on. I'm willing to bet the site would get a lot of traffic, and the db would have to be pretty high-end - SQL, perhaps. But to preserve the integrity of the info, the site might not generate much (or any) money and would have to be self-supporting.

Many hands make light work, and if anyone out there has skills or server space, and is interested in lending a hand, add to this thread and let's hash it out.

[BTM]

I've thought about this a lot as well, but I disagree that your solution is the obvious one, at least in terms of implementation - ie reinveinting the wheel.

There are good, free content management tools out there that preclude the need to build a site and db backend from scratch.

That said, my personal hosting is going bye-bye at the end of this month, and I'm not sure what I'm going to do after that, or else I'd suggest we join forces right now. I've got the required skills as well, in terms of architecture and design and all that. Maybe later...

[The King of Kwangju]

BTM -

Sounds like you and I are on the same wavelength.

I agree with you - there should be a relatively complex rating system involved, one that takes into account the rating of the raters, or at least makes it apparent who is doing the rating. I was thinking along the lines of Slashdot or evolt or kuro5hin.

[BTM]

Well, I think it depends on the upfront design ideas - if you choose a tool first, it always seems that you get the 'everything looks like a nail because you're holding a hammer' problem.

I like Moveable Type as a content management system, in part because Ben and Mena are so quick to deal with issues, because there's a huge userbase, because it's insanely flexible, and because I use it for my personal site. It's more aimed at weblogging, of course, though.

That said, Scoop, which is used by Kur05hin, is extremely powerful, flexible and mature too.

PHPNuke is similar to Scoop but not as 'featureful', I think, and although I haven't used it, I do see it all over the place.

I am interested, and I'd love to get a project off the ground, particularly if we could eventually see some revenues coming out of it, but even just as a service to the community, if not....

[The King of Kwangju]

I was thinking of PHPNuke, mainly cos I see it all over the place and it looks pretty versatile. The link for Scoop is down, but I'm familiar with the Kuro5hin site and quite like the way its set up.

More important to me is the rating system. I think evolt.org has a kind of weighted system, in which a review from a critic with a lot of props is given more weight than one from a critic with no props at all, or negative props. I think this would go a long way towards weeding out the cranks and people pumping up a resource with a lot of spoofed votes.

Your profile would become your currency - worth maintaining and actually worth something in the community. On top of that, the rating of the resource would be more accurate, which is the whole point.

It's a great idea, but one that I haven't seen offered for free. Probably cos its kind of complex. I might have to code it myself, which I don't relish.

How good are you with .php?

[The King of Kwangju]

Updating my own thread:

Some people have offered to pitch in and help, which is bringing this thing to fruition. As I said in my first post: many hands make light work. We should have something to launch in no time at all.

But there's still plenty of room for anyone who's interested in helping - send me a private message or add to this thread.


KoK

[Stunted Wookie]

Hi;
I will offer my site www.hogwan.com to host the database. Its ESL related, I am not bullied nor do I work for anyone but myself.
I offer a no holds barred approach to relaying personal opinions. My server is located stateside and a simple disclaimer would prevent any action from being taken against anyone posting negative information.

I program in SQL and could have a searchable DB up and running by the end of the weekend.

If interested reply here with ideas for content....I will start a rough draft of the db to test.

[The King of Kwangju]

Little Wookie -

This is the site that got me thinking about phpNuke:

http://www.forsalebr.com/

Check out the "Find Vehicle" link. They used phpNuke to organize their cars to an impressive level of granularity. I was thinking we'd take this structure and do the same with hakwons.

Surfistas would be able to type in "YBM" and search, but the db would be organized by city and province. They would see a search interface similar to this one, where they could search in specific locations, possibly using dropdowns for the cities in the provinces to prevent spelling errors (For example, you choose "Chollanamdo" and the dropdown gives you "Naju," "Mokpo," etc).

Anyone who signs in can add a hakwan to the db. Anyone who signs in can comment on a hakwan. Surfistas give the hakwans ratings - a simple 5 star-rating system.

It might be nice to have a way to weed out the cranks and hakwan directors themselves (I've commented on a few methods in this thread), but I think a simple "this hakwan has a rating of 4/5 with 24 votes" will be enough for now. If we want to build in a veracity system someday, we can do so.

It would be nice to have a forum in there, too.

The recruiter list would be simpler, with no geographical structure - just add a recruiter and rate 'em.

The design I can do, and I have a whack of data to pour into the db. Does this sound like something you could do?

[Stunted Wookie]

Yep;
I can create a db to reflect those kinds of searches...
The nuke themes do allow for a classified section module which is what the forsale site is using. But its better to create a db from scratch..I'll test a few ideas and post a link.

Just have a pleaseant look to the site and I can insert the structure to call data....I can add a forum, but I wouldn't want the wrath of Dave to ban me for suggesting that!

[BTM]

Uh, not to rain on the parade : jumping in and just building something is always fun, guys, but I'd strongly suggest some design documentation (use-cases and all, perhaps) that can be discussed and agreed upon before anything else, if you (we?) want to build something that will take off. (A disposable spike solution (ie a temporary conversation piece demo) is useful sometimes, but this isn't so big a project to merit it, perhaps.)

I've had way too much experience running projects in IT departments in corporates to think otherwise.

And yes, I'm willing to do that. PM me if you're interested.

[Stunted Wookie]

that's what the forsale site was I thought...a design model....

Maybe not.
You are right that the SQL project really isn't that big (from my viewpoint) ...
The main concern I think is usability and layout....
So I think all design ideas should be explored.....As for the page to take off... I think any regularly updated blacklist site would become rather popular fast.

[The King of Kwangju]

I think the core of the site is going to be fairly simple - a handful of pages, really - search, display, rate, login - maybe we can get away without too much documentation.

Or are you offering to write up the specs, BTM? That would be great, as far as I'm concerned.

If Stunted Wookie can get the backend going, we can skin the pages nicely enough, and rearrange elements to make it flow a little nicer if need be. This is what I do for a living, actually.

[Stunted Wookie]

It would be great to have someone who can organize effectively. I can write the backend.

I am toying with a program now, its open source but I am 'modifing' it as I write (uploading) ....
Lets see what comes of it as well. I will post it when finished.

[BTM]

Yeah, I was offering to write up a requirements spec. I'll work on it this week.

My hosting problems have been resolved, so I'm planning to run up a proof-of-concept demo in the next week or two, just for fun. I'll drop a link to the spec in here when I finish it, and likewise a link to whatever I knock together.

Go ahead with whatever you guys are thinking of, though, of course! Given that nobody's paying us to do this, it's no worries to independantly knock together some proofs of concept, and whatever architecture spike looks like a best bet on first blush will prob. be the one to go with at the end of the day...

Haven't talked sh*t like this since I was last a Highly Paid Geek, before the bubble burst...heh.

[The King of Kwangju]

I've also been working on some interface designs. I'll post them after a bit of tweaking.