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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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 Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:27 pm Post subject: Parents suck nowadays |
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"Groups sue Nickelodeon to stop junk food ads"
Parents are lazy wimps nowadays when it comes to kids. They'd rather waste American tax dollars suing people instead of saying "no" and deal with a crying child or actually have to raise children instead of the television. Is advertising the devil, yes it is. But parents are just such wimps, letting children get away with anything. The thing I get the least is the new theory of reasoning with kids under 12 years old. You tell them, you don't ask them and then have a debate about your decision.
I am against corporal punishment just incase anyone was wondering |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| My friend teaching in a public school back home told me lots of stories about how limited his control over a classroom really is. It sounds like a stewing crock of shite to me. |
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manlyboy
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Location: Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| It all went wrong when having kids changed from being an asset to being somewhat of a burden. Nowadays you just have kids for emotional reasons. Hence, parents are afraid their kids won't love them. It's insane. A lot of parents today are actually scared of their kids. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| manlyboy wrote: |
| It all went wrong when having kids changed from being an asset to being somewhat of a burden. Nowadays you just have kids for emotional reasons. Hence, parents are afraid their kids won't love them. It's insane. A lot of parents today are actually scared of their kids. |
Well when your six year old comes home and says, "Screw you dad, you touch one #$%^ finger on me or send me to bed without supper, I'm calling social services...". So many problems parents do have to deal with, but I still think they can deal with most of them and just don't, cause it's too much trouble. |
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PolyChronic Time Girl
Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Location: Korea Exited
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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I really don't understand how teaching at a public school in the U.S can be a rewarding career. Why would anyone put themselves through such hell? Plus it pays crap with all the education and all the B.S licenses/credentials you must have. It's insane now with all the bureactatic B.S and the crappy sue-happy parents. I even read an article that public K-12 teachers is probably THE most stressful job. Don't want any part of that....would rather work in an boring office than deal with that crap.
Last edited by PolyChronic Time Girl on Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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justagirl
Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Cheonan/Portland
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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The thing I get the least is the new theory of reasoning with kids under 12 years old. You tell them, you don't ask them and then have a debate about your decision.
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I would have totally agreed with you before taking all my course work for my MA in Education and working the public schools for over a year now.
Here's my experience:
A kindergartener kept crying during the day at school. Finally, she had a fit because she couldn't paint (it wasn't her group's turn to paint that day). Crying fits seem to happen to 5-year-olds a lot. The teacher told her to stop crying or she'd have to leave the class (it was the 3rd time that day for her to cry). She didn't stop, so the teacher asked me to take her to another classroom until she calmed down. As soon as I tried, she went ballistic--screaming, crying, kicking, etc. She wouldn't let me take her out the door, so another teacher and I both tried to get her out. We couldn't do it. It got to the point where we couldn't even pick her up to get her out. At that point, it was obvious that she wasn't going to be leaving.
She was now on the floor flailing and screaming and after 30 seconds or so, I crouched down next to her and said, "You know, I think you've had a really hard day. It must have been really frustrating for you." She looked at me and nodded, so I continued. I went on to ask her how her morning went at home and how she felt about the day she'd had so far at school. Then I asked her if I knew why she didn't get to paint the frog picture in centers today. She didn't, so I explained how the centers rotated so everyone got to do everything during the week, but not all on the same day.
Then I asked if that made sense to her. She nodded again and I said something to effect of how Mrs. Corey didn't tell her she couldn't paint the frog because Mrs. Corey was mean. It was because 31 kindergarteners can't all fit around one table, so we have to take turns. I asked if she knew when she'd get to paint frogs and she said no, so we went to look at the schedule for the week and found her name.
After all that, I told her that if she felt upset or angry again during class, I wanted her to come and find me and tell me and I'd take the time to listen to her and help her. I asked if she'd be willing to do this and she said yes. Tears totally gone, calm and happy, she walked to join the rest of the class on the group carpet area.
This is reasoning with little ones. I thought it was a nice idea, when it was brought up in grad school, but not really feasible or likely to happen in the classroom. I'm not saying it will always work, but it can work. It was obvious that the "darn straight, you're gonna do what I say!" wasn't working with this child.
I think the key idea people immediately conjure up when they hear about reasoning with children is that the children are the ones making any and every decision in this process. That's actually an inaccurate view of the concept. Yes, the child makes a decision for him/herself, but it is a decision that the adult decides the child can make. The adult can only give the children decision-making opportunities that the adult can live with. I wouldn't have asked the girl any question that would have a result I wasn't willing to give her. That is the foundation behind the reasoning with children.
For example, a child doesn't want to do his/her chore of washing dishes. Instead of saying, "Well, what do you want to do," (which allows the child to say that s/he doesn't want to do anything,) you would phrase the question something like this: "Okay, you can have a choice: you can do the dishes, or you can do the dusting and window washing."
So you select the decision to be made and one that will have responses you can live with.
Hope this helps a bit. It at least should explain the background of the idea and how it should properly be used.
justagirl
Oh--and your responses shouldn't be mean-spirited/manipulative like, "Ok, you can have a choice: you can do the dishes or you can go to your room and be grounded for a week." |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| justagirl wrote: |
For example, a child doesn't want to do his/her chore of washing dishes. Instead of saying, "Well, what do you want to do," (which allows the child to say that s/he doesn't want to do anything,) you would phrase the question something like this: "Okay, you can have a choice: you can do the dishes, or you can do the dusting and window washing."
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I don't really agree with most of this, but the part I quoted I completely disagree with. The world doesn't work like that and the soon children learn it the better. Hey boss, I don't want to work on this database, can I work on the interface for it instead ain't gonna work. Also, when you need the child to do something, they now know that they can refuse and hopefully get a better chore (it becomes sort of a lottery, hell, I wish I could do this at home  )
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Then I asked if that made sense to her. She nodded again and I said something to effect of how Mrs. Corey didn't tell her she couldn't paint the frog because Mrs. Corey was mean. It was because 31 kindergarteners can't all fit around one table, so we have to take turns. I asked if she knew when she'd get to paint frogs and she said no, so we went to look at the schedule for the week and found her name.
After all that, I told her that if she felt upset or angry again during class, I wanted her to come and find me and tell me and I'd take the time to listen to her and help her. I asked if she'd be willing to do this and she said yes. Tears totally gone, calm and happy, she walked to join the rest of the class on the group carpet area.
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Another theory is she just forgot what happened (quite possible at that age) and this adult is now paying attention to her. Doesn't really matter why? (Not saying we should ignore children or not pay attention though )
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This is reasoning with little ones. I thought it was a nice idea, when it was brought up in grad school, but not really feasible or likely to happen in the classroom. I'm not saying it will always work, but it can work. It was obvious that the "darn straight, you're gonna do what I say!" wasn't working with this child.
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And it will never work from now on with this child. Your idea did work, but probably not like you think it did. And while children are incredibly adept, intelligent, and good a soaking up information, I think this tends to be confusing to the child. |
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tzechuk
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't know about you, but I was brought up on reasoning. My parents never yelled at me - they always reasoned with me and it obviously worked. |
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manlyboy
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Location: Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| I wouldn't have asked the girl any question that would have a result I wasn't willing to give her. That is the foundation behind the reasoning with children. |
I agree with this, and I often employ that technique as it usually works well. Still, hissy fits are NEVER acceptable, and should be strongly discouraged. The kids that often throw hissy fits do so because they've learned through their parents that if they do it hard enough, the adult will cave in and they can get what they want. That is not positive behaviour to instill in a child. I wouldn't underestimate the cunning of these kids, either. Kids are far more wily and manipulative than adults give them credit for. Often it is our attention that they are mostly interested in. Or at least, your prolonged, undivided attention on them and no one else is an acceptable substitute to what they originally wanted. And if you give them that, at the expense of the other kids, they learn that whenever they want that special undivided attention again, they just have to throw another hissy fit. In fact, they can throw hissy fits whenever they want because they know they can do so with impunity. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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This thread so makes me not ever want to have kids.
I still can't figure out what Koreans do to bring up such horrid little kids but (with a few but only a few exceptions) such nice teenagers. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| tzechuk wrote: |
| I don't know about you, but I was brought up on reasoning. My parents never yelled at me - they always reasoned with me and it obviously worked. |
Good response!
I was never hit and almost never yelled at. But when I was told to do something, I did it. Simple as that. I never asked why I had to wash the dishes, I just did them when I had to because that was my job. It's called teaching your child responsibilty, something most children don't have anymore (I wonder if it could be because of current MA Education or Psychology students creating all these new theories with little experience actually dealing with children). You're telling me your parents gave you choices between chores and explained their decisions to you between the ages of 3 and 6? |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| manlyboy wrote: |
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| I wouldn't have asked the girl any question that would have a result I wasn't willing to give her. That is the foundation behind the reasoning with children. |
I agree with this, and I often employ that technique as it usually works well. Still, hissy fits are NEVER acceptable, and should be strongly discouraged. The kids that often throw hissy fits do so because they've learned through their parents that if they do it hard enough, the adult will cave in and they can get what they want. That is not positive behaviour to instill in a child. I wouldn't underestimate the cunning of these kids, either. Kids are far more wily and manipulative than adults give them credit for. Often it is our attention that they are mostly interested in. Or at least, your prolonged, undivided attention on them and no one else is an acceptable substitute to what they originally wanted. And if you give them that, at the expense of the other kids, they learn that whenever they want that special undivided attention again, they just have to throw another hissy fit. In fact, they can throw hissy fits whenever they want because they know they can do so with impunity. |
What I wanted to say, but a much better job of it  |
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Scott in Incheon
Joined: 30 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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| (I wonder if it could be because of current MA Education or Psychology students creating all these new theories with little experience actually dealing with children). |
In my experience reading about theories concerning children that most of them come from people in direct contact with children. They often arise from successful techniques used by educators with someone coming into that successful situation and trying to figure out why it works.
Reasoning does work with young children. I use it with my students when I taught elementary...and with my own children now (who are 4 and 2). Reasoning means giving them a choice. And this is like the real world. If don't want to work on the database then you can choose not to. The consequence would be that your boss could fire you but you still have the choice.
Most reasoning now with kids has two main components...one the choice...and second...immediate consequences.
It really isn't debate anymore...though it is true that some discipline/classroom management systems did include this sort of idea..now it is more about teaching them the choice/consequences relationship.
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| And it will never work from now on with this child. Your idea did work, but probably not like you think it did. And while children are incredibly adept, intelligent, and good a soaking up information, I think this tends to be confusing to the child. |
This is simply not true in my experience. Once kids start to understand the action/consequence thing...once they are given a say in what goes on around them...once they understand why things are happening a certain way then they tend to obey set rules and understand the need for new ones...they also understand what will happen if they break the rule and you don't hear..."that is not fair" as much...
though of course you still here it quite a bit...especially if the item in question has three princesses on it and there is no way of sharing it between your two daughters.... |
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Dan The Chainsawman
Joined: 05 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| This is where I would like to rant and rave about how the beatings my parents gave made me the man I am today. However being that I still gobbling down massive doses of prozac like M&M's due to all that I have to say that seeking alternative methods could not hurt. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
| I still can't figure out what Koreans do to bring up such horrid little kids but (with a few but only a few exceptions) such nice teenagers. |
They do what's expected of them like kids everywhere.
Also the older they get the more they are obligated to interact with younger people, which means acting 'adult' towards them, and that increases their level of maturity. |
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