Korean Job Discussion Forums

[The Dae Lim Kid]

Why don't foreign teachers start somekind of Union in Korea. Why don't we have a natinal walkout day where teachers around the country simply refuse to teach. We deserve more money for many reasons. Anyways I am just blowing off steam here!

[Captain Corea]

It is illegal for foreigners to organize a union in Korea.

[frankly speaking]

Overworked yes. Underpaid no. Did you know that in Thailand the schools charge around the same price per kid for a 30 hour class as they do in Korea but teachers there make 1/3 the salary.

Since the majority of teachers in Korea are first time out of university with little or no experience, they are getting paid exactly what they deserve. However, I do believe that experienced teachers should get a lot more in Korea than they do.

One job offered me 2.2 million. I said I have my MA in linguistics BA education, I have been a public school teacher in the US for 5 years and have been teaching in Asia for more than 7 years. They replied ok, we can give you 2.3. I kindly hung up the phone.

[Gamecock]

I certainly don't think ESL teachers are overpaid, especially those with experience who have made it their career. But overworked? Come on! After working in a public school in the states where I was in school 8 hours and then took home 2 hours worth of papers to correct every night, I haven't seen hardly any job in Korea that is near as exhausting. Compared to most any other job in the western world, the hours are considerably less.

I suspect most of the people complaining about being overworked are experiencing their first job...

[Oreovictim]

Actually, I get paid a crap-load of money for working very few hours.

Instead of a union, I'd settle for a law making it legal to dunk the evil kids in boiling kimchi. Man, that would rock.

[Homer]

Overworked...that really depends.

Where do you work?

What do you consider overworked?

Heck, I worked as a High School teacher back in Canada before coming here and let me tell you my hours were much longer than a typical Hakwon. I routinely had to bring work home (grading).....so as you can see it really does depend.


Underpaid...not really.

Salary is not the only thing when considering you well paid you are.

You have to factor in cost of living, advantages and amount of disposable income you are left with.

Now...take Korea and your avg Foreign Teacher.

Salary 2 million won.

Free accomodations (except for a small utility bill).
Medical coverage
Airfare provided
Severance package (one months salary).
Low income tax

Now that leaves you with a good chunk of disposable income/savings.



As for a FT union...it has been discussed before but as mentioned by the Captain it is illegal for us to do so in Korea. That however is the least of your problems when it comes to a union.

How can you form a FT union when:

a) Most of your target population is made up of short-termers here for a year or two.
b) Many have no real interest in teaching as a career.
c) Hakwons (the bulk of jobs here) are all independently run.


Also...

Who would run the union?
Who would manage the budget and collect dues (who would want to pay such dues...really now...)?

[Ya-ta Boy]

The idea of a union comes up here several times a year. Every time, the majority of posts deal with why it won't/can't work.

The #1 reason is that it is illegal. Well, unions were always illegal when first proposed.

Hardly anyone puts any thought into how the obstacles in working here....salaries not paid, crooked bosses, enormous resistance to paying for experience, sexism and agism etc can be overcome.

All anyone wants to do is say NO, it can't be done because it hasn't been done in the '5,000' year history of the country. As a result, nothing ever changes.

[mrd]

If you think you're underpaid, don't sign the contract. It's as simple as that. I'd like to see you make the kind of money you make in Korea for the hours you work back in your home country!

[butlerian]

[thegadfly]

I agree that good teachers are overworked and underpaid -- trouble is, there are durn few good teachers in Korea -- or anywhere else, for that matter. It is a little better in the US public school system -- 2 out of 3 teachers I met actually were good teachers...in Seoul, it was like 1 out of 10, in Pohang (not such a popular backpacker joint) it is 1 out of 2, so far....

Being a good teacher is a crappy job -- long hours, which equates to low pay, since most of that work is prep or checking papers or researching new teaching methods or professional development or shopping for school supplies or the zillion other things a good teacher does all the time.

Being a crappy teacher is a great gig -- short hours, great pay, no responsibility (simply because the crappy teacher refuses to BE responsible).

Unions protect crappy teachers much more often than they protect good teachers...simply because crappy teachers NEED more protection...so when a GOOD teacher finally needs help, resources are spread thin, precedents have been set, public opinion has been formed, and the teacher is skrood.

In Korea, thankfully, good teachers don't need a union -- here, a good teacher can actually negotiate, as the good teacher has skills and talents that directly alter the bottom line. You show a businessperson that they will make more money by hiring you than by not hiring you and you will have the job...not every boss may be like that, but why would you want to work for a boss that can't tell a solid business proposition from a pile of BS?

Of course, inexperience with the system may cause quite a few bad experiences...but bad experience is where good judgement comes from, so it's just another step along the path....

[Novernae]

[Mr. BlackCat]

[Homer]

It is possible to form a Union and it could theoretically do some good.

However, before it could do some good, it would have to overcome the obstacles identified above.

If you want to discuss the reality of a union you have to face the very real problems you would have in forming one....

You cannot ignore certain industry facts here. Most teachers are transient workers with little interest in investing long term here (nothing wrong with that by the way) so why would they join a union and pay dues?

That is your first problem.

Second problem is that the Hakwon industry is not regulated by a central body (ex: Ministry of Education or School Board) so how can teachers from a myriad of schools, each operated by its own rules, be effective?
It would take a lot of work and a lot of tolerance from union members to support pushes in directions that do not concern them.

Third problem.

Who manages the Union? How do you select there people? How do you pay them?


Fourth problem.

How do you deal with the turnover in teachers? Your union would be stuck in a perpetual assembly line of paperwork for new applications and membership cancellations as teachers come and go.

There are many more real and unavoidable structural and admistrative problems to deal with before you could even start to do some good....

By the way Ya Ta....unions do exist here and things have changed but we are talking about Foreign Teachers not about citizens of this country.

Even without a union things have improved a lot since 1997. I can see a big difference in a short 9 years here.....

[Bukowski]

Unions promote mediocrity! They are ruining the public school system in the U.S.

Give Korea some credit for trying to do something right.

It doesn't sound like people are fully appreciating the damage unions do.

Why would you want a union in Korea? Do you want to protect more deadwood? Public schools in Korea are already forced to endure Korean deadwood. Should they have to endure foreign deadwood as well?

As for private businesses, if a foreign "teacher" is losing them students/money by doing a terribly job, the owner should be allowed to fire them on the spot!

How many private businesses treat "excellent" employees terribly? Zero! They know when they have a good thing and when they receive a turd from a recruiter.

This industry has matured a lot over the past twelve years. Koreans have had plenty of experience with foreigners to know the difference and they treat them accordingly.

I fail to see a single reason for wanting a "teachers" union, let alone any benefit.

AC

[tophatcat]

How many private businesses treat "excellent" employees terribly? Zero!

Sorry! I don't agree with this statistic! I think it must be at least 1% in the Hoggy Industry!