Korean Job Discussion Forums

[jjk]

Here's the story. We are working at hagwon a, where we have been for over 5 years. We were planning to leave the school at the end of February, though the visa is valid with the school until December.

We got the letter of release, and then found a new job. We signed the contracts, with starting dates of March 13 and April 7 replacing two single teachers.

We then had a further discussion with the school we are still contracted and legally tied to. They don't want us to leave now, and said that we should stay with them.

We finally agreed, and they told the new school that we were staying and pulling out of the contract. Our current school also said they would be pulling the letter of release they wrote.

The new school claims they can't give us back our original diplomas etc that they had for the visa, as they are now taking the matter to their lawyer!

How can they expect us to work for somewhere you have been sued into the classroom? Also, we are still tied to our current school, so they contract isn't vaild, as we don't have a work permit for them.

We didn't want this to happen, but these things sometimes workout like this.

What do you think they will do? The contract can't force us to break the law- i.e- work there without a valid visa etc.

Your thoughts and opinions would be appreciated.

[denverdeath]

I'm sure you'll be fine. Make sure you have your boss behind you, just in case. Probably just empty threats.

[jjk]

anyone? We need to try and get this all sorted out this week!

[Big Mac]

Why not go to the police and report your diplomas as stolen property? If they're yours and you've asked for them back, then they're stolen. These are very valuable documents.

I agree that their threats sound empty. Think about it. What legal basis do they have for suing you?

[jjk]

Good idea about filing a police report! I'll follow that up. When we were going over the contract with them before signing, they also said don't worry about the tax and pension as we don't pay it! They said it's a waste of money!

It would be our word against them on that though, as our contracts give nett salary amount!

We don't think they have any basis for suing us, but Koreans don't normally run off to laywers or threaten too- at least in our experience...

[jacl]

Go over to school B and apologize and get your diploma and transcript back. If they don't give it back, call the police and then threaten to counter-sue them for grievance.

You're not the good guy here though. That kind of sucks. It sounds like your boss offered you more money to stay.

Them suing you is rather laughable though. Your boss knows your situation and thus the responsiblity lies on his shoulders.

I guess the latter is my final sypnosis.

[BigBlackEquus]

I can't guarentee this, because I heard two people talking about it over coffee once, but I heard that POSSIBLY it takes something like over 4 million won to start a suit against someone. Not sure it's true or not. If that were the case, I would have to think they are bluffing.

I would tell the new school to go take a flying leap. Order a new diploma (not sure if you'll even need it to renew your visa or not with the old school).

The new school still has LOADS of time to find new people.

You didn't get the E-2 with them, so it's just a piece of paper. I'd be telling them, "Hey, you sue me and you have to prove damages. You still have lots of time to find a teacher, so you are creating your own mess. You'll be out money for hiring a lawyer, and I won't work for you anyway. And if I do work for you, I would do a really poor job and make your hagwon stink. So back off, and stuff your threats!"

[jjk]

BigBlackEqqus,

The old school is the one we are staying with! They are going to withdraw the LOR to stop the visa issuance application from the new school.

Keeping the job at school a, our current school isn't because they offered us more money. The reasons for staying there are complicated, but the point of the matter is we aren't going to the new school now. I have emailed them asking for the diplomas back, which they have refused becasue the are consulting laywers.....

I emailed another reply, stating they should still return them as they are our property. We know that we have signed the contract, but as we still have a valid visa for our current school, and there is over a month for one of us, and 2 months for the other to start they have more than resonable time to find new teachers instead of us. As of Friday, they hadn't sent the documents in for a visa application, and they were told Friday night about our choice to not start at their school.

I just can't see how the contract could be legally binding if there is no work visa for the new school, and since they hadn't even started the visa application process, and we are in Korea, they haven't outlaid any money- we found them through people, not a recruiter- so no fee there.

[dandoeskorea]

I agree with jacl. Perhaps the easiest thing would be to contact the school again and apologise in person, thus easing the situation. Threats from either school will just escalate it all and leave everyone feeling bitter, and who knows, if an argument between the two schools ensued - in or out of court - maybe your current school would rather revert to their original plan of letting you go, just to save them from the extra hassle.

Who's been in contact with the new school since your change of heart, you or your current boss? If it was you, have you actually apologised to them for changing your mind? I ask this as it seems as though they're upset for more than just you going back on the contract you signed. If your existing boss has been speaking with them, he's probably at fault for angering them further, and that's why I suggest you apologising in person. If your reasons for changing your mind are genuine, I'm sure they'd understand, but it would have to come from you, and not your boss.

[ontheway]

jjk,

You signed a contract. That piece of paper is/was a commitment by both parties. When you break your contract, you may cause damages to the other party. The other party is entitled to sue to recover for those damages. It is you (the two of you) who have damaged the other school and not your present employer, even though he induced you to do it. He did not damage the other party. So, yes the other school can sue you.

The fact that you never got an E2 visa on behalf of the new school could be a valid defense on your part IF it is mentioned in the contract and/or it was due to some impossibility and not due to factors within your control.

The "new school" has an obligation at this point to return your documents as they are your property, AND they have an obligation to mitigate their damages. That is, they must seek two alternate teachers as quickly as possible.

You need to write some letters, not just email, confirming your earlier verbal and email letter notice to the "new school". Try to give some valid reasons why you can't come there in the letter. Demand, nicely, the return of your documents. You can mention that their intent to break the Korean tax and pension laws was the reason for your decision. You do not want to be law breakers in this wonderful country in which you are a guest. Your reluctance to violate Korean law IS a valid reason to terminate your contract prior to its commencement.

Letting the other party know, in writing, that you will use this defense (the intent of the other school to make you into lawbreakers in Korea) might cause them to rethink their lawsuit against you. If they have had teachers before, it will be easy to show that they didn't pay tax and pension in the past. This history will be all the evidence you need. You could also mention that their assumption that you are criminals and would participate in such a scheme is an attack on your reputation and that you will consider legal action against them for failure to return your property and defamation.

Maybe you can send the letters in Korean and English. Your current boss should help you as he did induce to break your new contracts. Although, it sounds like maybe it was good that you did.

Good luck.

[jjk]

Thanks for the replies.

We spoke to the school when they called on Saturday, after hearing from our current school we would be staying. We apologized, but that there were circumstances that led us to pull out of the contract. Perhaps we will visit them with a Korean witness, apologize again, and ask for our documents back.

Can our current school contact immigration and withdraw their letter of release? that would fix some concerns we have about them subbmitting the E-2 application without us knowing about it!

[J.B. Clamence]

I agree with jacl that you are not the good guy here. You signed a contract with this school and now you are acting as if that doesn't even matter. Whatever reason you have for renigging on this contract, it's not this school's fault and they have a reason to be upset.

A lot of people here seem to be saying that they have no case against you. I disagree. A contract is a legally binding document. You signed it, and they have it. The fact that the visa has not yet been obtained is of little importance. The fact is that they are ready to proceed with the visa and you are telling them "No." You can't just say, "Well, the contract is void because I refuse to get a visa." It's not that simple. You have a responsibility to get a visa in order to honor the contract, and if you don't, then you are at fault. As for your school "withdrawing" a letter they have already given you, how much weight does their withdrawal carry? You already have their letter.

I'm not trying to insult you, but you seem to think that you are a victim of unfairness here. My two cents is that you are not. No offence.

[jacl]

Just go get your documents. "Give me my diploma or I'm going to get angry!"That's it, that's all. They're probably thieves in the first place. Don't write letters or spend any time on this.

[jjk]

I'm not claiming to be a victim of unfairness! I know that the school has every right to be angry that we are pulling out, however- we have given them a lot of notice.

Also, the fact that they don't pay into the pension fund or pay tax made us feel more uncomfortable the more we thought about it! Our current school meets its legal obligations.

Not trying to make excuses. We know that the contract means something, just my understanding was that it needed a visa to become active- after all if the visa wasn't issued until after the starting date, it would make the severance section null and void, if they didn't want to extend our work period etc....

We just want to get our documents back- going there with a Korean from our current school should help, but who knows. Can I find out from immigration if the paper work has been submitted for the new application?

As for the LOR, it was given with the other documents. I want to know if my current director can contact immigration and cancel/withdraw it?
Thanks- the more replies the better for us.

[ontheway]

The biggest worry you have is not your documents. It's the threatened lawsuit. If they file against you, they could win. You would have to defend yourself. You have one valid defense regarding illegality, however, mounting a defense would be expensive and time consuming for you. Don't assume that they won't sue. I've seen crazy employers in the US sue out of anger, and although their damages were real, the chances of recovery were nil. The suit went on, the parties all went broke, no damages were awarded, the lawyers got rich.

Send the letter that I mentioned. Certified mail or the Korean equivalent. Try to head off that lawsuit. The letter should be polite but firm. And demand your documents in the letter.

As far as your current school. You need to go in to Immigration ASAP for your visa extensions. If you can get them, then at least you will have no problem to continue working at your current school. It is possible that the "new school" by filing the LOR and other documents at Immigraton could have made it impossible for you to continue there.