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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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 Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:22 am Post subject: |
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Why not just go to the real one?
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animalbirdfish
Joined: 04 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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I'd like to read that, too.
Bart Ehrman (the author) was on the Daily Show on 3/14. Find it on Bit Torrent if you're interested. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Or alternately, click on the link in the OP... |
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animalbirdfish
Joined: 04 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Bulsajo wrote: |
| Or alternately, click on the link in the OP... |
Ooops. Yeah, i guess you could do that. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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The path less travelled and other meaningful proverbs, yadda yadda yadda...
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Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
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| Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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Some great excerpts:
"This story (the parable of Jesus and the prostitute ['Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.']), even though it's the most popular story, probably, in the Gospels, it wasn't originally in the Gospels. ... It not only didn't happen, probably, it also wasn't originally in the Bible."
"Sometimes they (scribes) would actually change the text and make it say what they wanted it to say."
"We have over five thousand of these manuscripts (of the New Testament), but no two of them are exactly alike. ... There are hundreds of thousands of differences in these manuscripts."
Like some other Biblical scholars, he began as a fundamentalist/literalist, but changed as he became more educated/knowlegeable.
It seems that few Biblical scholars are literalists, and most literalists are not Biblical scholars.
(By Biblical scholars, I mean people who learned Greek so as to read the New Testament in its original language, whose full-time job is studying the Bible, etc.) |
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Dan The Chainsawman
Joined: 05 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| whaddya mean jesus didn't say "Free beer and ho's"? |
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cwemory
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Location: Gunpo, Korea
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:41 am Post subject: |
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Ehrman did a interview sometime ago for NPR. He discusses how his little his faith changed when he stopped viewing the Bible literally. He also summarizes his previous works. It is quite lengthy, but makes for good listening.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1551896 |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Not everyone believes Jesus died on the cross, and I'm not talking about atheists. Some believe that Jesus survived the crucifiction, married Mary, and lived in Kashmir.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuz_Asaf
I can't remember the exact details, but there was a Roman philosopher (I forget his name) that was said to have healed the sick and walked on water. Some even believed he was a half-god like Hercules. These miracles were all attributed to him after his death. In reality, he was a brilliant man, philosopher and diplomat, who never made such claims for himself. I've read that some scholars argue that the Council of Nicea added some of these miracles to the Bible to grab the attention of his followers. Any idea on who I'm talking about? Details? |
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Xian
Joined: 08 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Troll_Bait"]Some great excerpts:
True that it wasn't in all of the earliest manuscripts.
| Quote: |
| "We have over five thousand of these manuscripts (of the New Testament), but no two of them are exactly alike. ... There are hundreds of thousands of differences in these manuscripts." |
For facts.
There are over 24,000 manuscript copies of portions of the New Testament in existence today: 5,488 (92') known Greek manuscripts, 10,000 Latin Vulgate and 8,300 other early versions and translations in Syriac, Egyptian, Arabic, Ethiopian, Armenian, Persian, Gothic, and Slavonic, just to name a few.
98.33% pure and clean of any errors which consists only of spelling errors, not the communication of the text.
All but 11 verses could be reconstructed from the writings of the Church Father��s, over 32,000 quotations. Helps to confirm the accuracy of the text.
From all the Roman and Christian writings of the first century, not one eyewitness account contradicts the historical record of the Gospels in any capacity. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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Is what you have written incompatible with Bart Ehrman's research?
I.E. are you saying he is full of shit ?
Or can these two sets of facts coexist? |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Bulsajo wrote: |
Is what you have written incompatible with Bart Ehrman's research?
I.E. are you saying he is full of *beep* ?
Or can these two sets of facts coexist? |
Let's not forget the many Jewish and Muslim accounts that dispute that Jesus was the Messiah, or that he died on the cross. |
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Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:53 am Post subject: |
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| Xian wrote: |
| Troll_Bait wrote: |
Some great excerpts:
"This story (the parable of Jesus and the prostitute ['Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.']), even though it's the most popular story, probably, in the Gospels, it wasn't originally in the Gospels. ... It not only didn't happen, probably, it also wasn't originally in the Bible."
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True that it wasn't in all of the earliest manuscripts.
| Quote: |
| "We have over five thousand of these manuscripts (of the New Testament), but no two of them are exactly alike. ... There are hundreds of thousands of differences in these manuscripts." |
For facts.
There are over 24,000 manuscript copies of portions of the New Testament in existence today: 5,488 (92') known Greek manuscripts, 10,000 Latin Vulgate and 8,300 other early versions and translations in Syriac, Egyptian, Arabic, Ethiopian, Armenian, Persian, Gothic, and Slavonic, just to name a few.
98.33% pure and clean of any errors which consists only of spelling errors, not the communication of the text.
All but 11 verses could be reconstructed from the writings of the Church Father��s, over 32,000 quotations. Helps to confirm the accuracy of the text.
From all the Roman and Christian writings of the first century, not one eyewitness account contradicts the historical record of the Gospels in any capacity. |
If true, then that would be impressive.
However, more important than the number of differences is the nature of the differences.
For example, let's imagine that we have two manuscripts, and they are identical in every way except that one has the parable of Jesus and the prostitute, and the other one does not.
Technically, that's only one difference, but it's one heck of a difference, one large enough to cast a long shadow over both manuscripts.
Also, what do you mean by, "From all the Roman and Christian writings of the first century, not one eyewitness account contradicts the historical record of the Gospels in any capacity"?
If something's not mentioned, then that's not a contradiction.
For example:
Scenario 1
A: I saw Bugaboo the Anointed One pick up a stone throw it up, and whilst in mid-air, it turned into a dove and flew away.
B: I was there that day. The rock just fell down. However, he pointed up into the sky and said, "Do you see the dove? Look! Over there! It's flying away! See?" And all the dummies fell for it.
= contradiction
Scenario 2
A: I saw Bugaboo the Anointed One pick up a stone throw it up, and whilst in mid-air, it turned into a dove and flew away.
B: I never saw or heard of any such thing happening. In fact, I've never heard anyone ever mention this "Bugaboo the Anointed One." I've never seen any writings by or about him either.
= no contradiction
Also, Christian forgeries (of which there are known to be many) certainly wouldn't contradict Christian views, would they? |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Since King James authorised the first translation of the Bible in 1611, many new versions have deliberately altered and changed the wording.
Here is the original:
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/thebible.htm |
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