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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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 Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:31 am Post subject: the Starbucks Story: "Pour Your Heart into It" |
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Reading the book now.. very good.
Strangely, I've never even ordered anything in Starbucks before.. but thinking of it now. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| I don't think that chain cafes will really every achieve the ambience, atmosphere, flavour, and quality if coffee and food that one off boutique cafes have. That's my opinion. Cafe's were not meant to be franchised. |
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coffeeman
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 7:37 am Post subject: |
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Agree. I think the decor of good coffee shops should reflect the cities that they're in.
I think Starbucks makes a decent cup of coffee, but I absolutely abhor the furniture and decor of Starbucks shops. Very Ikea-like. Very corporate-looking - a reflection of the company. Starbucks has some snob appeal to it, so even if you put a cool independant shop next to it, some people will still go to Starbucks. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:19 am Post subject: |
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Starbucks uses a roasting method that people either love or hate. Just like I love dark, strong beer, I like the strong, dark Starbucks coffee. It's almost like eating a meal.
However, I agree with Satori about the ambience. It's very corporate and stale. Down the street from the Dunsandong Starbucks in Daejeon is a place called Coffee Design. It's very small (4-5 tables), but the owner is incredibly friendly and the decor is homey. It feels sort of like you're sitting in someone's private living room. And, the owner makes beverages like this one:
Starbucks can't touch that. |
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weatherman
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:39 am Post subject: |
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http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200602/200602170009.html
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How much you pay for a cup of coffee depends on where you get it. From a vending machine it costs just W500 but luxury hotels may charge up to W10,000 (US$10). Foreign franchises such as Starbucks and Coffee Bean, which are mushrooming everywhere, charge W3,000-5000 for a cup and an extra W500 for syrup and other flavorings.
But how much does it cost to produce a cup of coffee? Lee, who runs a franchise, says you need about 7 g of coffee beans to make a cup. ��The price of beans varies according to quality and brand, but it generally costs W140 won for a cup and no more than W300 even if you choose the highest-quality beans.�� Adding boiled water, milk, sugar and ice cubes brings the direct cost to W200-400.
The key is indirect cost, which is determined by where and how coffee is served and covers rent and management, depreciation of interior and labor. Direct cost accounts for just 10 percent of the total. The rest is indirect cost and profit.
A multinational franchise in Yeoksam-dong, a business district in Seoul, spends about W2,556 in direct and indirect cost making a cup of coffee assuming it sells about 300 cups a day or 9,000 cups a month. If the chain charges W4,000 on average for a cup, that is a clear profit of W1,500 for every latte.
Coffee lovers who buy two cups a day at the franchises spend about W200,000 a month. Lee Young-suk (40) says cup of coffee costs her more than a decent bowl of the traditional beef stew seolungtang. ��It makes me think I��ve got my priorities mixed up,�� she says.
There is plenty of room for coffee franchises to cut prices. Take Starbucks. The corporation recorded a whopping 17.8 percent in return on investment in 2004, which is astonishing given that the average in the food and beverage industry is 6.5 percent. In short, the franchises are overcharging. Since there is no reason the prices should be uniform everywhere, some say the chains could also cut prices in parts of town where rent and management cost are lower.
The industry hears its share of complaints. One staffer says customers get suspicious when the quality of coffee beans is not clearly indicated.
But the franchises insist the price for a cup of coffee is determined by different market environments as factors such as rent, labor cost and reinvestment vary from country to country. ��Consumers in countries where coffee has been enjoyed for a long time and by many people may get a cup of coffee at relatively low prices compared to other commodities, but consumers in Asian countries that have just started enjoying coffee have to pay relatively higher prices,�� an industry official says. |
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| In short, the franchises are overcharging. |
Boy, that line pisses me off. If you don't like the price it isn't the company, it is the consumer who decides. They are paying for the coffee. It is the market, baby. Geez, Korea, anti-capitalist if it is foreigners, good business sense if it is a local. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:01 am Post subject: |
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starbucks should be banned!! its destroying the cafe scene!
still good thing about NZ is we are too cool to be seen sitting in starbucks! in NZ you are uncool if you are in starbucks! not to mention the coffee tastes like burnt tainted dish water!
I saw on the menu the other day, a cafe mocha, rasberry latte
WTF 
give me a short black and a cafe latte and im SWEET!!
thanks to BABA BUDAN the Original drug smuggler!
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| weatherman wrote: |
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200602/200602170009.html
| Quote: |
How much you pay for a cup of coffee depends on where you get it. From a vending machine it costs just W500 but luxury hotels may charge up to W10,000 (US$10). Foreign franchises such as Starbucks and Coffee Bean, which are mushrooming everywhere, charge W3,000-5000 for a cup and an extra W500 for syrup and other flavorings.
But how much does it cost to produce a cup of coffee? Lee, who runs a franchise, says you need about 7 g of coffee beans to make a cup. ��The price of beans varies according to quality and brand, but it generally costs W140 won for a cup and no more than W300 even if you choose the highest-quality beans.�� Adding boiled water, milk, sugar and ice cubes brings the direct cost to W200-400.
The key is indirect cost, which is determined by where and how coffee is served and covers rent and management, depreciation of interior and labor. Direct cost accounts for just 10 percent of the total. The rest is indirect cost and profit.
A multinational franchise in Yeoksam-dong, a business district in Seoul, spends about W2,556 in direct and indirect cost making a cup of coffee assuming it sells about 300 cups a day or 9,000 cups a month. If the chain charges W4,000 on average for a cup, that is a clear profit of W1,500 for every latte.
Coffee lovers who buy two cups a day at the franchises spend about W200,000 a month. Lee Young-suk (40) says cup of coffee costs her more than a decent bowl of the traditional beef stew seolungtang. ��It makes me think I��ve got my priorities mixed up,�� she says.
There is plenty of room for coffee franchises to cut prices. Take Starbucks. The corporation recorded a whopping 17.8 percent in return on investment in 2004, which is astonishing given that the average in the food and beverage industry is 6.5 percent. In short, the franchises are overcharging. Since there is no reason the prices should be uniform everywhere, some say the chains could also cut prices in parts of town where rent and management cost are lower.
The industry hears its share of complaints. One staffer says customers get suspicious when the quality of coffee beans is not clearly indicated.
But the franchises insist the price for a cup of coffee is determined by different market environments as factors such as rent, labor cost and reinvestment vary from country to country. ��Consumers in countries where coffee has been enjoyed for a long time and by many people may get a cup of coffee at relatively low prices compared to other commodities, but consumers in Asian countries that have just started enjoying coffee have to pay relatively higher prices,�� an industry official says. |
| Quote: |
| In short, the franchises are overcharging. |
Boy, that line pisses me off. If you don't like the price it isn't the company, it is the consumer who decides. They are paying for the coffee. It is the market, baby. Geez, Korea, anti-capitalist if it is foreigners, good business sense if it is a local. |
its not the consumer! its forced upon you! in italy they have a law! you are not allowed to charge more than 80cents for a coffee at the bar!
but sitting down at a table they charge more. so of course different stores will charge more.. I had a latte lastnight I paid 7 bucks for it in a cafe!
you see even back in NZ if you went to one of the most expensive restaurants for a coffee! its gonna cost you the same as anywhere else!
A latte is a latte! but not here! go to kangnam its 8bucks for a glass of coke or a tea! becuase its kangnam! and becuase everyone is charging high prices for beverages! becuase the turn over of tables is slow! koreans in general will spend about 2 -3 hours at a cafe and only order one round! not to mention the rents are high!
starbucks creates the prices .. they are all the same prices over the country .. the francise set those prices! not the consumer!!
if they made their lattes 2800 instead of 4800 I dont think the people will complain its to cheap! for god sake its COFFEE!
the growers in peru are making something like 50 cents a pound.
large companies are destroying them! starbucks is one of the majors!
Sara Lee, Kraft, Nestle also..
50 cents a pound!!!! thats how much the middle gets it for! then he sells it
starbucks was killing them but now have joined the fair trade coffe association. and serve something like once a week fair trade coffee in all its stores! but they should be doing this everyday! at all its all stores!
the growers get nothing , while distributers are making millions and coffee owners are making the real profits! I mean come on!!
consumers have never set the price! its the greedy corperate a holes, they kill off the farmers and bleed them dry and then they try to empty our pockets! for a beverage which costs the store owner under 20cents to pour!
and we pay 5 bucks for!!
the reason why we pay for it! is because BRAND! no other reason!
they could start charging 8 bucks for lattes and people will still pay it!
nike charges 150 bucks for shoes its not because we set that price, its becuase they set it and we have no choice if we want that label!
starbucks coffee will never win any coffee awards! and will not sell more pounds of coffee in wellington becuase we know what bad coffee tastes like! americans and koreans dont! |
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hojucandy
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
Location: In a better place
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| Qinella wrote: |
Starbucks uses a roasting method that people either love or hate. Just like I love dark, strong beer, I like the strong, dark Starbucks coffee. It's almost like eating a meal.
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there is nothing strong about starbucks coffee or dark about its roast. they make a medium roast and they brew it weak as piss. i can make much better coffee at home using the cheapest emart coffee.
they are however the best of a bad bunch. there are no good coffee shops in korea - face it... |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| They don't call coffee "liquid gold" for nothing. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
I had a latte lastnight I paid 7 bucks for it in a cafe!
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What make of gun did the owner hold to your head? |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| hojucandy wrote: |
| Qinella wrote: |
Starbucks uses a roasting method that people either love or hate. Just like I love dark, strong beer, I like the strong, dark Starbucks coffee. It's almost like eating a meal.
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there is nothing strong about starbucks coffee or dark about its roast. they make a medium roast and they brew it weak as piss. i can make much better coffee at home using the cheapest emart coffee. |
Compared to other coffee I've had, Starbucks blends tend to have a much stronger flavor. I've been to numerous coffee chains and cafes, but the only one that's been stronger than Starbucks was Coffee Design, which I mentioned earlier. Starbucks roasts their beans longer than most other places, and that's why it tends to taste different.
You say you can make a stronger brew at home, but studies have shown Starbucks coffee has a higher caffeine content than regular Folgers or Maxwell House (or, god forbid, Maxim). I've had some coffee from various cafes that was so weak it literally made me queasy. Give me a Starbucks americano with two extra espresso shots and I'm not having the ride of my life, but I'm good to go.
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| they are however the best of a bad bunch. there are no good coffee shops in korea - face it... |
Did you not see the pic I posted? That's in Korea. The guy who made that mocha latte has been making coffee for 15 years, and studied the art in Japan. When you get an americano from him, the top layer of cremme is completely solid. It's impossible to tell that it was even poured, because there's no evidence of a broken layer. When I first tasted the americano, I almost passed out on the spot.
The woman who introduced me to that store said there's one even better some where in Daejeon. She said they roast the beans right there in the store, that's how fresh it is. However, I've been unable to find it.
There's good coffee in Korea. As for Starbucks, I think it fills its niche. People who want real coffee continue to go to the small cafes, where owners make a personal investment in quality.
Q. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Qinella wrote: |
Starbucks uses a roasting method that people either love or hate. Just like I love dark, strong beer, I like the strong, dark Starbucks coffee. It's almost like eating a meal.
However, I agree with Satori about the ambience. It's very corporate and stale. Down the street from the Dunsandong Starbucks in Daejeon is a place called Coffee Design. It's very small (4-5 tables), but the owner is incredibly friendly and the decor is homey. It feels sort of like you're sitting in someone's private living room. And, the owner makes beverages like this one:
Starbucks can't touch that. |
That's not bad. In Wellington, NZ you would not get a job as a barrista if you could not produce that consistanly and under pressure. The ring around the outside is actually a little too dark which suggests it will taste a tiny bit bitter. Either that or the pressure in the machine is not set right.
What I find worst about even good coffee in Korea is not the coffee but the milk. They don't know how to cream the milk with really tight bubbles, basically not bubbles at all, a perfect latte should actually be shiny on top the milk should be that thick and smooth. It's damn hard to learn. I did it full time for three years. But a latte without properly creamed milk is not a latte.
Kiwi's are coffee snobs. If you've only lived in north america and then come to Korea, chances are you've not had a perfectly made latte yet. No dissrespect, and there may be exceptions, probably in Quebec with the French there. But I go out with north americans in Korea for coffee and they'll be like "hmmm, great coffee" and I'll be thinking "it's not even average, it's frigging HORRIBLE".
Now I sound gay. I'll stop. I'm a coffee freak... |
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coffeeman
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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BANNED COFFEE SHOP LIST (feel free to add)
1) $tarbuck$
2 $eattle'$ Best
3) The Coffee Bean
Print out this list and keep in in your pocket to show your date the shops you are not going to go to.
This last shop, the Coffee Bean, shocked me when I went in there. They're even more expensive than $tarbuck$. 5000 won for a tall latte? That's stupid! - especially in a country that has a much lower cost of living than North America. |
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coffeeman
Joined: 24 Nov 2005
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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we know what bad coffee tastes like! americans and koreans dont![/quote]
Yes, the Koreans know little about coffee because they've had little history with it, but please give the Americans a break. Starbucks is part of a coffee revolution there. Before Starbucks, coffee in America was almost undrinkable.
If you read this excellent book on coffee, Uncommon Grounds, they explain how for years America was the top buyer of Brazilian coffee beans which were regarded as the bottom end in terms of quality ( I don't know if that's still true today) for many years. Then to make things worse, the diners and coffee shops would water it down. That was their way of maximizing profits, serving bad watered down coffee.
European coffee shops more often bought their beans from higher quality sources like Columbia and Costa Rica. Surprisingly, it's the Japanese that buy the best coffee. They are the top purchasers of Jamaican Blue Mountain.
What I am saying is that you can sympathize with Americans because for about a century, all the corporations there have served them is poor quality brew. You can't blame them for embracing Starbucks when it came along. Especially for people in smaller cities, it's the only place that served up a respectable cup of coffee. |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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Most of you are out of your collective gourds.
What is a good cup a coffee? With all the varieties of beans, mixes, brewing methods, presentation methods and whatever it's almost ridiculous to have one opinion on what good coffee is.
And as for the prices being expensive in Korea, Starbucks Korea has the highest costs in the world because the Korean coffee culture dictates that much more seating space be available than take-out driven North American coffee places.
And itaewonguy, I've consumed copious amounts of coffee in Italy and discovered that it can be pretty similar (depending on the cafe and what you order) to Starbucks.
The people who deride the foo-foo flavors are also out of their gourd -- there's almost nobody today who has coffee in its original form, just eating the bean, or it's second form, ground up and mixed with animal fat. |
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