Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Soul Forest]

I am beginning this post with a mini-lesson on nomenclature for people who may not have studied much Chinese/Japanese/Korean yet. As you should know already, Korea is called "Han-guk" in Korean. In Japanese, it is called "Kan-koku." "Kan-koku" and "han-guk" are based on the same Chinese characters ����, so in other words it is the same word in both languages. "Hanguk" is only called Korea in English, because that's what some early French explorers named it, mispronouncing "Koryo," the historical Korean dynasty. As for Japan, it is called "Ni-Pon" in Japanese, and "Il-bon" in Korean -- again, it is based on the same word in chinese characters ����, but just a different pronunciation. I don't know why Japan is internally known referred to as Japan, rather than "Ni-pon".

As for America, it is called "Mi-guk" in Korea and "Beikoku" in Japanese. Koreans write it with these Chinese characters ڸ��, literally meaning "Beautiful Country," which is how China also calls America (as far as I know, since I haven't actually studied Chinese). However, in Japanese, America is spelled with these Chinese characters, ڷ国, which means "Rice Country." I don't know Japan changed America to Rice-Country rather than Beautiful-Country as it is known in Korea and China.

SO, NOW ... I move on to my main point of this post, which was triggered today as I watched NHK, the Japanese channel on my Korean cable TV package. The news reporter referring to Japanese-Korean relations said "kan-nichi" (Korea/Japan), putting Korea first in the order and Japan second. Then, when refering to America/Japan relations, the news reporter said "nichi-bei" (Japan/America), putting Japan first in the order and America second.

It seems to be well known that internationally Korea was spelled with a C until the Japanese occupation, then Japan changed the spelling to K.
The common sentiment in Korea is that Japan wanted to change Korea to begin with a K, so that Japan would be ahead of Korea in the alphabetical order.

I wonder if that is true. Was Japan concerned about the J being ahead of the K in the Roman alphabet, when in it's own language it puts Korea ahead of Japan? In Japanese, "Kankoku" comes ahead of "Nippon" in the Japanese alphabet, thus Korea is ahead of Japan, while "Beikoku" comes after "Nippon" and thus Japan is ahead of America in the Japanese alphabet.

Anyway, doesn't this whole C/K mess just come down to the fault of the ABC alphabet. I think we should just cancel out the C or the K, since they represent the same sound. And we should either cancel out F or PH.

[Ya-ta Boy]

[the_beaver]

Is it time for this thread again?

Korea is spelled with a K in English because English is a germanic language and all germanic languages spell it with a K.

That is all.

[ajgeddes]

Korean is not called 韩��it is called 韩国��

Regarding the whole C vs K thing, I have seen tonnes of evidence showing that Korea was spelt with a K before Japan came here as well (It was on their national stamps).

As well, I have seen lots of evidence that shows that Japan may not have changed it to a K.

A lot of Koreans say that it is because Japan wanted to come into the olympics before the Koreans, but they always come in under the native language anyways, and not English, so there that goes out the window.

I really don't know for sure, and I don't think anyone does, but that's just the feeling I have. As well, I have a feeling that if Japan had picked C, then they would be spelling with a K all the time in protest now, as well. Who knows, I don't, who cares, I don't, so whatever. If they change it to a C, I am going to start pronouncing it Sorea.

This is from the 1895-1903 era.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=9505454007&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX#ebayphotohosting


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=9509312697&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX#ebayphotohosting


http://cgi.ebay.com/Korea-Imperial-Korean-Stamp-5_W0QQitemZ9506342816QQcategoryZ47175QQcmdZViewItem


http://www.pennfamily.org/KSS-USA/1895kss-korbase.html


As you can see, the stamps with French have Coree and the stamps with English have Korea. So, nothing has changed.

[laogaiguk]

[Free World]

[ajgeddes]

In defence of that, it wouldn't kill us to get rid of the 'C'. We have a K and an S. The only thing we need C for is the 'CH' sound.

[Free World]

I think the X and Q should go long before the C.

[Demophobe]

[mithridates]

[Homer]

Not this again....

[Soul Forest]

I know that topics related to Japan-Korea related histories come up frequently on the board, and have come up recently, so I hope I wasn't directly repeating anything that has come up on the board in the past month or two. I didn't read the board last year so I don't know what might have been there.

Indeed, I made a few sloppy cuts-and-pastes (����, ����, etc) and a few lazy assumptions, as pointed out by a few posters. Thanks for the corrections and I apologize for any confusion. I should be more careful, especially when writing anything connected to a controversial topic. I feel quite humbled.

The links to stamps on ebay were quite interesting.

As for the naming of Japan, I am aware that it also gets known to a lesser degree as Nihon or Nippon internationally, but I had temporarily forgotten that at the time of the posting (I've been away too long). Still, why is it called "Japan"? Why is it simply not known as Nihon or Nippon?

As for America being known as "Beikoku" in Japan, it's true that it gets refered to as America a lot more. But, there's no denying that "Beikoku" sees its fair share of usage, especially in print, in the TV news, and in formal settings. It's a word that I heard and saw in usage, not just one of those obscure things that I found in an old dictionary.

Thanks for the explanation of America's writing in phonetics: "America written phonetically with kanji becomes 亜ڷ��ʥ." I could only catch the meaning of about 2/3rds of the excerpt from the Japanese wikipedia but it was helpful anyway. After looking it up in a dictionary, I found that the first character 亜 is also used as the "A" in Asia, when representing Asia with characters.

[SeoulFinn]

Why it is called Japan? Here's why:

Mandarin Chinese, one of the forms of Chinese to develop from Middle Chinese, the phrase evolved to Rìbenguó, an early form of which was recorded by Marco Polo as Chipangu, which he would have pronounced as (ch-pän-g) or (sh-pän-g). The early Mandarin word was borrowed into Malay as Japang, which was encountered by Portuguese traders in Moluccas in the 16th century. These traders may have been the ones to bring the word to Europe; it is first recorded in English in 1577, spelled Giapan.

EDIT: From dictionary.com/Japan
EDIT 2: For some reasons the copy paste didn't come through exactly as in the site.

[ajgeddes]

As to why Japan has a different name for America, there could be many explanations. I think this could be a possibility. First off, Japan, China and Korea have been in contact with each other for as long as there was only Chinese writing, so it is more natural to share the same Chinese characters. America came into the picture at a way later date and perhaps Japan had a name for America before China did. I don't think they changed anything. Remember, China had a lot of influence in Korea at the time of contact with America, so that could be a big reason they have the same name.

Anyways, what I am getting to is that, don't just presume Japan changed the name. They speak different languages and have different names for different countries, while having similar names for other coutries.

But, this is just all speculation, but I think it seems like a good explanation.

[RACETRAITOR]

From what I understand calling the US "rice nation" is making a joke about their consumption habits. It's sort of a double entendre on the original meaning.