|
Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
StAxX SOuL
Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Location: London
|
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:30 pm Post subject: Help! Am I Stuck In This Illegal Contract? |
|
|
So I took a job via a recruiter on what is close to two months ago now. However, since coming here I've had a chance to see what the LSA is all about and it appears a number of the terms in my contract are illegal and the working conditions are far from what they were suggested.
Now the problem is this. I never intended to bail out on my school but conditions have been such that another teacher who started at the same time as me has been forced to do just that . Contrary to the contract signed, even upon production of a sick note from the doctor advising 3 days rest, the school will not grant it to you because only contagious diseases are enough to be given a sick day. Instead if you take it, they'll take your wages and have threatened to null and void if its taken as a sick day.
The working day is 9.30 - 6.05pm and at no point is recess time granted. Lesson time isn't from these hours but these are the staying hours at school and the hours your expected not to use to pursue any of your own activities. If you're browsing the net you shouldn't be, you should be at your desk doing something work related, and I'm far from an avid browser at work. I have 3 hours free sometimes, but if I use them to do my grocery shopping then I'll be called into the boss' office and told that I shouldn't be.
Now from my understanding of the LSA a number of terms within my contract and the actions of my school are illegal:
1. I have a penalty clause in my contract which states if I leave without 60 days notice then I am to pay 100,000W per month for the remainder of my contract as a compensation to the school. If I give the 60 days notice then they 'gracefully' reduce that payment to 80,000W per month .
2. I'm granted no recess. My working hours since the school wish to use their authority over me during these hours are 9.30 - 6.05 and I'm expected to complete school related activities solely. That's 8hrs 35 minutes a day with no recess period for my own free use. Under the act I'm entitled to 1 hour for every 8 hours worked.
3. Thus, my week is 43 hours, 3 hours over the 40 hour limit as stated in the most recent amendment to the LSA. If I were granted recess, sure it would fall below, but I'm not.
4. For the first 3 months I'm deducted 200,000 which is some kind of deposit money and I receive it back at the end of the contract. [Now I'm not hugely bothered about the last one but from the understanding of Article 42 that I have, its still illegal.]
Now, I hadn't been actively searching for another job, but I accompanied the friend to a job interview the other day which she was recommended for and whilst I sat outside, the director invited me into the office and offered me a job with her establishment after a brief chat. 5hrs 30 minutes a day no lesson planning, grading, evaluation cards, making flashcards, creating test sheets etc etc. and given my unhappiness in my current position I'd like to join my former colleague in this new role.
What I'm looking for is whether the contract can be rendered null and void by the terms which violate the LSA thus freeing me to take up this new position. Also, how I would go about leaving this contract, maybe with just paying the airfare, or since a number of terms seem contrary to the Act, an anullment or having the contract deemed void.
Any help would be much appreciated. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
|
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Deposits are only illegal if you DON't agree to them. If you signed the contract, and agreed to these deposits, there is not much you can do. You should have asked for these deposits to be removed.
As for the time spent at work, if you take breaks between classes, those are counted as recesses regardless of what you are doing. What about the time you have for lunch. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
|
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't know about the contract, but if you are that unhappy with the work situation you can give 30 days notice and walk away.
There is the ol' release letter issue to deal with though. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
StAxX SOuL
Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Location: London
|
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Deposits are only illegal if you DON't agree to them. If you signed the contract, and agreed to these deposits, there is not much you can do. You should have asked for these deposits to be removed.
As for the time spent at work, if you take breaks between classes, those are counted as recesses regardless of what you are doing. What about the time you have for lunch. |
But its a fundamental point in contract law that you can't agree to a term which is illegal, with the classic example being that of the hitman who agrees a contract kill and looks for immunity. The contract can be rendered illegal by illegal terms within it, and a contract which constitutes an illegality can never be constituted. Meaning, no contract exists. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
StAxX SOuL
Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Location: London
|
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Deposits are only illegal if you DON't agree to them. If you signed the contract, and agreed to these deposits, there is not much you can do. You should have asked for these deposits to be removed.
As for the time spent at work, if you take breaks between classes, those are counted as recesses regardless of what you are doing. What about the time you have for lunch. |
?
LSA states that recess is for your own free use. If I'm restricted and can't use the time freely, i.e. going to the stores rather I have to use it prepare for lessons, create flash cards etc etc. My mornings are simply back to back periods with no break although I always have one or two periods off, but I MUST use those for school. I can't go out, browse the net etc etc. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Wangja

Joined: 17 May 2004 Location: Seoul, Yongsan
|
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
StAxX SOuL wrote: |
TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Deposits are only illegal if you DON't agree to them. If you signed the contract, and agreed to these deposits, there is not much you can do. You should have asked for these deposits to be removed.
As for the time spent at work, if you take breaks between classes, those are counted as recesses regardless of what you are doing. What about the time you have for lunch. |
But its a fundamental point in contract law that you can't agree to a term which is illegal, with the classic example being that of the hitman who agrees a contract kill and looks for immunity. The contract can be rendered illegal by illegal terms within it, and a contract which constitutes an illegality can never be constituted. Meaning, no contract exists. |
Don't get too tied up in "contract law" - just give 30 day's notice.
(BTW, in most countries such "illegal" conditions do not void the entire contract). |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
bellum99

Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Location: don't need to know
|
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't understand the problem....I would have my contract and highlight the parts that I want to fight about and do it. I would use my time how I want...if they disagree then I would say the magic word "NO". I don't agree with you about having no choice...you let them screw you around and they think that it is okay now. It is simply a matter of you fighting about it and the other teachers not being cowards. Expect to get fired and expect to fight for everything at the end. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
spliff

Joined: 19 Jan 2004 Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
|
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If you can't deal w/ it then...PULL A RUNNER!  |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
bellum99

Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Location: don't need to know
|
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
spliff wrote: |
If you can't deal w/ it then...PULL A RUNNER!  |
Stupid advice. Only do a runner if you aren't geting paid and it is early in the contract. Running means you get nothing and the boss actually makes money. Stay and finish the contract and get everything owed and make the best of it. Fight if you can but just get your money. If you really can't take it then run but only as a last option. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
StAxX SOuL
Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Location: London
|
Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Wangja wrote: |
StAxX SOuL wrote: |
TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Deposits are only illegal if you DON't agree to them. If you signed the contract, and agreed to these deposits, there is not much you can do. You should have asked for these deposits to be removed.
As for the time spent at work, if you take breaks between classes, those are counted as recesses regardless of what you are doing. What about the time you have for lunch. |
But its a fundamental point in contract law that you can't agree to a term which is illegal, with the classic example being that of the hitman who agrees a contract kill and looks for immunity. The contract can be rendered illegal by illegal terms within it, and a contract which constitutes an illegality can never be constituted. Meaning, no contract exists. |
Don't get too tied up in "contract law" - just give 30 day's notice.
(BTW, in most countries such "illegal" conditions do not void the entire contract). |
Lunchtime is spent with the kids. Finish your lesson grab the lunch trolley and take it to your classroom. Serve the food, sit with them and help them eat, and you're lucky if you get 5 or 10 minutes for yourself. Most days, you don't, the last kid is through brushng their teeth as the next lesson bell rings.
But as far as the attention I'm paying to contract law, I went through a 3 year BA in Law, and the whole thing about contracts is that they would be pointless if there wasn't contract law to enforce or get you out of them. But as for the illegal terms issue, I'm simply going by the LSA, Article 22, stated below:
Article 22 (Labor Contract contrary to This Act)
(1) A labor contract which establishes conditions of employment which do not meet the standards provided for in this Act shall be null and void to that extent.
(2) Those conditions invalidated in accordance with the provisions of paragraph (1) shall be governed by the standards provided herein.
I don't know, aside from my previous studies but using the interpretative skills I developed it kind of explicitly states what happens if any terms contravene the Act. I can't even see much room for interpretation even if someone wanted to contest it, well perhaps for voiding the term and not the entire contract. You just refer them back to the consequence of doing so which are outlined in the Act. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
|
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
I don't know about you, but I'd be telling them to sod off if they tried to tell me what I can and can not do during break time.
You seem to know quite a bit about the labour laws, so why don't you act on what you know? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
|
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
StAxX SOuL wrote: |
Wangja wrote: |
StAxX SOuL wrote: |
TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Deposits are only illegal if you DON't agree to them. If you signed the contract, and agreed to these deposits, there is not much you can do. You should have asked for these deposits to be removed.
As for the time spent at work, if you take breaks between classes, those are counted as recesses regardless of what you are doing. What about the time you have for lunch. |
But its a fundamental point in contract law that you can't agree to a term which is illegal, with the classic example being that of the hitman who agrees a contract kill and looks for immunity. The contract can be rendered illegal by illegal terms within it, and a contract which constitutes an illegality can never be constituted. Meaning, no contract exists. |
Don't get too tied up in "contract law" - just give 30 day's notice.
(BTW, in most countries such "illegal" conditions do not void the entire contract). |
Lunchtime is spent with the kids. Finish your lesson grab the lunch trolley and take it to your classroom. Serve the food, sit with them and help them eat, and you're lucky if you get 5 or 10 minutes for yourself. Most days, you don't, the last kid is through brushng their teeth as the next lesson bell rings.
But as far as the attention I'm paying to contract law, I went through a 3 year BA in Law, and you know the whole thing about contracts would be pointless if there wasn't contract to enforce or get you out of them. But as for the illegal terms issue, I'm simply going by the LSA, Article 22, stated below:
Article 22 (Labor Contract contrary to This Act)
(1) A labor contract which establishes conditions of employment which do not meet the standards provided for in this Act shall be null and void to that extent.
(2) Those conditions invalidated in accordance with the provisions of paragraph (1) shall be governed by the standards provided herein.
I don't know, aside from my previous studies but using the interpretative skills I developed it kind of explicitly states what happens if any terms contravene the Act. I can't even see much room for interpretation even if someone wanted to contest it. You just refer them back to the consequence of doing so which are outlined in the Act. |
Where in the Act does it outlaw deposits? . Some people have had success by saying this, but it doesn 't mean anything. GEPIK has deposits in all its contracts and as a government organization they should know what is legal and what isn't. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
the eye

Joined: 29 Jan 2004
|
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
Wangja wrote: |
Don't get too tied up in "contract law" - just give 30 day's notice.
(BTW, in most countries such "illegal" conditions do not void the entire contract). |
the man knows what he's talking about.
korean labor law overrides contract law when it comes down to the final say.
take your issues to the labor board. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Fat Sam

Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Location: Gyeonggi-do
|
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
GEPIK has deposits in all its contracts |
Not all of them. I work for GEPIK yet this has never been asked of me. The majority, maybe, but not all.
TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
and as a government organization they should know what is legal and what isn't. |
They should and they do. Many teachers stood-up to their schools over this illegal clause -even putting their jobs on the line over the issue when re-negotiating last year. The Labour Board backed them up but despite this, GEPIK tried to insist they agree to deductions for the first three months. Some of the teachers had the deposit removed from their contract successfully, while others gave in (not that there's anything wrong with that if you want to maintain a good relationship with your school, and are confident of getting it all back at the end).
The point is that just because a government organisation says it's true, it doesn't necessarily make it so.
Equally, the GEPIK 60-day notice period goes against Labour Laws (only 30 days are required).
I doubt these clauses would invalidate the entire contract, but I'm only speculating. I'm sure you could challenge them on each of these points despite having agreed to them initially -since they are illegal. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Grotto

Joined: 21 Mar 2004
|
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: |
Deposits are only illegal if you DON't agree to them. If you signed the contract, and agreed to these deposits, there is not much you can do. You should have asked for these deposits to be removed. |
Deposits are illegal as they violate the labour laws. By law they are only allowed to deduct tax, insurance and pension. Exceptions are collective agreements...of which our contracts dont qualify. The deposit itself violates Korean labour laws which supercedes the contract. If you stand up for yourself they cannot deduct this from your pay....if you lie down and take it up the butt then of course they can
To the OP. Contract the labour board...cite everything that you pointed out and file for violation of contract and ask for termination of said contract. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|