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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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 Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:37 am Post subject: (After 2000 Years) Forbidden Gospel of Judas Returns |
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The Forbidden Gospel Of Judas
The Journal of Hispanic Ufology
January 17, 2006
SOURCE: Mundo Misterioso
DATE: 1/14/06
1-16-6
Publication of the Forbidden Gospel of Judas will unleash controversy among the Christian religious community.
According to the Daily Telegraph, a Swiss foundation and National Geographic magazine are planning to publish translations of the The Gospel of Judas, an ancient Coptic text found in Egypt during the 1970s.
Althought the gospel's text is still not available, experts highlight that when Judas betrayed Jesus, he was acting under direct orders from God.
The gospel was translated by Rodolphe Kasser, the foremost expert in the analysis of Coptic texts at the University of Geneva, Switzerland.
The original document -- a papyrus -- dates from the 4th century and was made available for sale to collectors in the United States and Europe for many decades after its discovery in Egypt's Al-Minya region. It was recently identified as part of the prestigious collection of the Maecenas Foundation in Basle, Switzerland, although some scholars question that it could have been written by Judas himself, and was more likely the creation of a group of his followers.
(Translation (c) 2006, Scott Corrales, IHU. Special thanks to Jose M. Garcia Bautista)
http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/manuscripts/gospel_of_judas/
Last edited by igotthisguitar on Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:27 am; edited 4 times in total |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| The Journal of Hispanic Ufology? Well, if that doesn't give Nature and Bibliological Archeology Review both a run for their money... |
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shortskirt_longjacket
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Location: fitz and ernie are my raison d'etre
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 10:36 pm Post subject: Re: The Forbidden Gospel Of Judas |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
Althought the gospel's text is still not available, experts highlight that when Judas betrayed Jesus, he was acting under direct orders from God.
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Well, that seems pretty obvious. Aren't we told that Jesus was sent specifically to act as a sacrifice for the sins of the world? Wasn't it his destiny to die? Makes a lot of damn sense that he'd have to be betrayed by someone.
In fact, I never understand it when Christians are anti-Semitic...I mean, why get pissed off that someone killed your Lord if, though his death, you are able to experience the ecstacy of eternal life?
I don't understand what's so controversial about Judas being under direct orders from God.
Here's something to ponder: Does Judas get into heaven because he obeyed God's will, or is he automatically disqualified because he killed himself? Also, if he killed himself shortly after betraying Jesus, when did he have time to write a gospel? |
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doublejeopardy
Joined: 16 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| I agree. I don't see the big controversy. According to the biblical story, Jesus was given to be sacrificed. For his death to have to impact it does in the bible, someone needed to betray him. Enter Judas. It doesn't seem strange to me that it would be believed that he was acting on God's orders. |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| The Journal of Hispanic Ufology? Well, if that doesn't give Nature and Bibliological Archeology Review both a run for their money... |
yeah, but there's supposed to be something about this in an upcoming article of national geographic too I think. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| peppermint wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| The Journal of Hispanic Ufology? Well, if that doesn't give Nature and Bibliological Archeology Review both a run for their money... |
yeah, but there's supposed to be something about this in an upcoming article of national geographic too I think. |
Back during the first hundred or so years of the early church, there was an absolute mania to read about the life of Jesus and all those around him via "authentic" gospels. People were happy to supply them, penning them themselves. There's a gospel about Jesus as a child, there's one ostensibly by the Virgin Mary, there's the famous Gospel of Thomas, etc. Even the four canonical gospels weren't written by the actual apostles. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| The Journal of Hispanic Ufology? Well, if that doesn't give Nature and Bibliological Archeology Review both a run for their money... |
LOL!!!!
| Quote: |
| Here's something to ponder: Does Judas get into heaven because he obeyed God's will, or is he automatically disqualified because he killed himself? Also, if he killed himself shortly after betraying Jesus, when did he have time to write a gospel? |
That's the controversy!
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Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:38 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| peppermint wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| The Journal of Hispanic Ufology? Well, if that doesn't give Nature and Bibliological Archeology Review both a run for their money... |
yeah, but there's supposed to be something about this in an upcoming article of national geographic too I think. |
Back during the first hundred or so years of the early church, there was an absolute mania to read about the life of Jesus and all those around him via "authentic" gospels. People were happy to supply them, penning them themselves. There's a gospel about Jesus as a child, there's one ostensibly by the Virgin Mary, there's the famous Gospel of Thomas, etc. Even the four canonical gospels weren't written by the actual apostles. |
Actually, I think that you are referring to the Gospel of Mary Magdalene. It's one of the gnostic gospels that gave people the idea that maybe Jesus married Mary Magdalene. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| Don't mean to be a wet blanket, but how does this topic in any way refer to CURRENT EVENTS? |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Here's something to ponder: Does Judas get into heaven because he obeyed God's will, or is he automatically disqualified because he killed himself? Also, if he killed himself shortly after betraying Jesus, when did he have time to write a gospel? |
That's the controversy!
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In short, who cares? The christian religion is based on a handful of books voted upon by men 300+ years after the fact. They picked among dozens of books and gospels that never actually made it into the bible. All these gospels were written 100+ years after the events in the life of Jesus, their authorship attributed by tradition only, and the events were hammered by and distorted by unknown authors to fit ancient prophesy.
You may as well spend your time debating plot holes in the Harry Potter books. |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| fiveeagles wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Here's something to ponder: Does Judas get into heaven because he obeyed God's will, or is he automatically disqualified because he killed himself? Also, if he killed himself shortly after betraying Jesus, when did he have time to write a gospel? |
That's the controversy!
|
In short, who cares? The christian religion is based on a handful of books voted upon by men 300+ years after the fact. They picked among dozens of books and gospels that never actually made it into the bible. All these gospels were written 100+ years after the events in the life of Jesus, their authorship attributed by tradition only, and the events were hammered by and distorted by unknown authors to fit ancient prophesy.
You may as well spend your time debating plot holes in the Harry Potter books. |
They also chose those books/gospels which suited their immediate political purposes at the time as well. The Roman Empire had crumbled, there were barbarians to convert, and new religious power struggles challenging the primacy of Constantinople/the Nicene Creed vs the Bishops of Rome were taking place. Given the prize was no less than control over the heart/soul/territory of what was left of the Roman Empire, the stakes were very high. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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When does the Dan Brown book on this come out?
And will Denzel play Judas in the film version? Or Jamie Foxx?
These are the important questions of our times, my friends. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| canuckistan wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| fiveeagles wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Here's something to ponder: Does Judas get into heaven because he obeyed God's will, or is he automatically disqualified because he killed himself? Also, if he killed himself shortly after betraying Jesus, when did he have time to write a gospel? |
That's the controversy!
|
In short, who cares? The christian religion is based on a handful of books voted upon by men 300+ years after the fact. They picked among dozens of books and gospels that never actually made it into the bible. All these gospels were written 100+ years after the events in the life of Jesus, their authorship attributed by tradition only, and the events were hammered by and distorted by unknown authors to fit ancient prophesy.
You may as well spend your time debating plot holes in the Harry Potter books. |
They also chose those books/gospels which suited their immediate political purposes at the time as well. The Roman Empire had crumbled, there were barbarians to convert, and new religious power struggles challenging the primacy of Constantinople/the Nicene Creed vs the Bishops of Rome were taking place. Given the prize was no less than control over the heart/soul/territory of what was left of the Roman Empire, the stakes were very high. |
This is why I find the fundies who decry things like the Jesus Seminar (a group of modern biblical scholars who try to determine what things in the bible Jesus actually said and what was later a writer's embellishment) as laughable. The fundies seem to take issue with the voting process. Like the bible just sprang whole from god's big toe and voting is some kind of heresy. And yet, that's precisely how the bible came to be. A couple centuries after the fact, a bunch of men voted on not only what they felt was "authentic" but even whether or not Jesus himself was divine. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 12:43 am Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| Don't mean to be a wet blanket, but how does this topic in any way refer to CURRENT EVENTS? |
Because it IS current news ( actually we're likely a step or two ahead of "the herd" on this one ). Would PRE-current news be more accurate?
You're likely to be hearing more about it over the next few months.
Gospel of Judas Back in Spotlight After 20 Centuries
Middle East Online, UK
Mar. 30, 2005
Patrick Baert
www.middle-east-online.com
Swiss foundation seeks to shed light on controversial Christian text named after apostle said to have betrayed Jesus.
The heresy-fighting bishop Irenaeus of Lyon, France, mentioned the Gospel of Judas about 180 AD, linking the writing to a Gnostic sect. Some two centuries later, Epiphanius, bishop of Cyprus, criticized the Gospel of Judas for treating the betrayer of Jesus as commendable, one who "performed a good work for our salvation."
About 2,000 years after the Gospel according to Judas sowed discord among early Christians, a Swiss foundation says it is translating for the first time the controversial text named after the apostle said to have betrayed Jesus Christ.
The 62-page papyrus manuscript of the text was uncovered in Egypt during the 1950s or 1960s, but its owners did not fully comprehend its significance until recently, according to the Maecenas Foundation in Basel 
The manuscript written in the ancient dialect of Egypt's Coptic Christian community will be translated into English, French and German in about a year, the foundation specialising in antique culture said on Tuesday.
"We have just received the results of carbon dating: the text is older than we thought and dates back to a period between the beginning of the third and fourth centuries," foundation director Mario Jean Roberty said.
The existence of a Gospel of Judas, which was originally written in Greek, was outlined by a bishop, Saint Irenee, when he denounced the text as heretical during the second century.
See Also
The Gnostic Gospels: Are They Authentic?
Gnostism and the gnostic Jesus
"It's the only clear source that allows us to know that such a Gospel did exist," Roberty explained.
The foundation declined to say what account Judas is said to give in his alleged gospel.
According to Christian tradition, Judas Iscariot betrayed Jesus Christ by helping the Romans to find him before he was crucified.
"We do not want to reveal the exceptional side of what we have," Roberty said.
The author of the text is unknown.
"No one can clearly state that Judas wrote it himself," Roberty said, while pointing out that the other gospels were probably not written by their supposed authors either.
The four recognised gospels of the New Testament describe the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ and are said to record his teachings from the eyes of four of his disciples, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.
The Roman Catholic Church limited the recognised gospels to the four in 325, under the guidance of the first Christian Roman emperor, Constantine.
Thirty other texts - some of which have been uncovered - were sidelined because "they were difficult to reconcile with what Constantine wanted as a political doctrine," according to Roberty.
The foundation's director said the Judas Iscariot text called into question some of the political principles of Christian doctrine.
It could also to some extent rehabilitate Judas, whose name has often come to symbolise the accusation of deicide - God-killing - levelled by some Christian teachings against the Jewish people, he added.
After the manuscript is restored, the text is due to be translated and analysed by a team of specialists in Coptic history led by a former professor at the University of Geneva, Rudolf Kasser.
Jean-Daniel Kaestli, an expert on gospels who has seen the manuscript, said the discovery was "very interesting", although the papyrus was in a bad state.
He added that it was not going to lead to a revolutionary change in the vision of the Bible, although it could shed some new light on parts of Christianity's holy text.
The Maecenas Foundation, which aims to protect archaeological relics found in poor countries, hopes to organise exhibitions around the manuscript and to produce a documentary on the process of unravelling the text.
The full launch is due in Easter 2006.
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/10841 |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
| The Bobster wrote: |
| Don't mean to be a wet blanket, but how does this topic in any way refer to CURRENT EVENTS? |
Because it IS current news ( actually we're likely a step or two ahead of "the herd" on this one ). Would PRE-current news be more accurate?
You're likely to be hearing more about it over the next few months. |
Judas: This is What Really Happened
Julian Borger and Stephen Bates
Friday April 7, 2006
The Guardian
After being reviled for almost 2,000 years as the embodiment of treachery, Judas Iscariot's side of the story was finally published yesterday. Thanks to a newly discovered gospel in Judas's name, we now know what his excuse was: Jesus made me do it.
The Gospel of Judas, a fragile clutch of a leather-bound papyrus thought to have been inscribed in about AD300, was unveiled yesterday in Washington by the National Geographic Society, and it represents a radical makeover for one of the worst reputations in history. 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0,,1748970,00.html
The manuscript also serves as a reminder that the four gospels in the New Testament were not the only versions of Jesus's life in the early Christian era, according to Bart Ehrman, a religious studies professor at the University of North Carolina, at its unveiling yesterday.
"In the struggle among Christian groups to win converts only one emerged victorious," he said. "It declared itself orthodox and all others heretics."
The Gospel of Judas is known to have existed before AD180, when it was denounced as heretical by Bishop Irenaeus of Lyon. But it was [size=14hought to have been lost when the gnostics were vanquished in the struggle of ideas in the early years of Christianity.
The papyrus manuscript, also known as a codex, was found in an Egyptian cave in 1978. It circulated among antiquities traders for a while before it was locked in a safe deposit box in Long Island, New York, by a collector. It was bought in 2000 by a Swiss dealer, who realised its importance and its rapidly deteriorating condition and handed it over to the Maecenas Foundation for Ancient Art in Basel the next year. |
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