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princess
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: soul of Asia
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 Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 10:38 am Post subject: WHAT A JOKE |
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| I just saw an ad for a school that expects its applicants to have a degree from a prestigious university to teach middle and high school students. In all my time in Korea, I NEVER met any fellow teachers with a degree from somewhere like Harvard. I also saw two schools offering only one week of paid vacation. If there is a shortage of teachers in Korea, it's no wonder. Many schools don't offer too much, they expect too much from applicants, and the whole sealed transcript thing some folks have had trouble with. GEEZ!!!!! |
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tomwaits
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Location: PC Bong
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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I always have trouble judging the market----back home now.
On one hand there seem to be tons of jobs on certain sites (I even saw several offers at 2.7) and I think whoa.
On the other hand you see stuff like this and wonder -Are teachers lining up to take any old thing?
PS---transcript stuff may be a headache but I can't see it scaring people away... |
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alffy
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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Yea, I've been looking over a lot of the job postings lately to get an idea of what's out there and what's desired for a move there in the fall and some of it just doesn't seem to jive with what I've read on these boards.
From what I've been getting from others on this board and other sites it appears there is a teacher/sellers market in Korean EFL right now, but some of these jobs are asking alot.
Do you guys that know better than I do think these are your typical "ask for the moon" types of adverts, but the schools will settle for less?
And are the "2.7 mil won" jobs just so much smoke from recruiters? Or are these becoming more common for better qualified entry-level types?
Thanks,
alffy |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: WHAT A JOKE |
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| princess wrote: |
| I just saw an ad for a school that expects its applicants to have a degree from a prestigious university to teach middle and high school students. In all my time in Korea, I NEVER met any fellow teachers with a degree from somewhere like Harvard. |
What do they / you define as prestigious? I have a "friend" from the University of Chicago who teaches English here. Not Ivy League, but top 10ish in the US. |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: WHAT A JOKE |
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| princess wrote: |
| I just saw an ad for a school that expects its applicants to have a degree from a prestigious university to teach middle and high school students. In all my time in Korea, I NEVER met any fellow teachers with a degree from somewhere like Harvard. I also saw two schools offering only one week of paid vacation. If there is a shortage of teachers in Korea, it's no wonder. Many schools don't offer too much, they expect too much from applicants, and the whole sealed transcript thing some folks have had trouble with. GEEZ!!!!! |
You would be surprised. Daewon Foreign Language High School has a few Ivy Leaguers and their compensation is absolute shyte: no paid vacations, no housing, insane work hours. AND you have to take an SAT reasoning test and score above 750 on the writing and verbal sections for a liberal arts position or all three sections if you want to teach mathematics or science. It's absolutely retarded. BUT, lots of people eventually work out deals that make this seem better or just love working with elite kids: the attitude of most of the administrations at these schools is that it is honor enough to be employed by them and you better say 'Thank you'. Think of it as the investment banking lifestyle as an educator, and without the huge payoff.
As for the U. of Chicago, my favorite school in the States, a great institution, superb undergraduate program(by the way, I was the study abroad counselor at my school, that's where all this experience comes from) and most Koreans either: A) Think it's a state school(from the great state of Chicago) or B) Don't give a crap because it's not in the Ivy League.
What's the Ivy League to these people? Well you know, that group of schools that includes Stanford, Harvard, Princeton, Duke, MIT and Yale...and a couple more. But certainly not University of Pennsylvania...that's a state school silly. Koreans have even come up with the acronyms "HYP", "HYPS" and "HYPS+M" to make things easier to equivalate to the Korean "SKY". I could rant on and on about the emphasis they put on the SATs as well--they really do see it as the only important element of the application: it's the "American Suneung". (This is ultimately how all the money is being made--parents who believe their kids need test-training more than anything else, will pay ANYTHING to get somebody from HYP to do it for them.)
My point, of course, is that the majority of schools(none of the admin at my school had a clue), parents and students(they are the first, and often only people to eventually learn) have a clue what the Ivy League is, nor an inkling that there are many other schools that are far superior (if my kids have to choose between Brown and Berkeley, you better believe I'll be pushing for Berkeley).
However, they put such absolute emphasis and faith on something they don't understand at all it can have comical results. When I left my school, I had applied to graduate schools of education, but was still three months away from getting my notice. While I was at the school, I got a lot of dismissive comments from parents who suggested that as I went to a state school(Rutgers U.) I could really know how to guide their kids to greatness. Annoying, but I finished my term there, my students did very well, and I went off to study in India. While I was studying in India, I got notice that I had been accepted to a school of education at an Ivy League U.(not in HYP, mind you, darn.), and was happy, but decided to defer for a year to save up some more money(these schools are, shall we say, slightly expensive) when I got back to Korea, I was literally BOMBARDED with phone calls from parents who had earlier scoffed at me, begging me to teach their kids, most keeping my phone number from other parents in an attempt to keep me to themselves: they had even convinced themselves that Rutgers wasn't really a state school--it doesn't sound like one like University of Pennsylvania, does it?  . I do not teach the children of any of these parents, btw.
My points are four:
1. The schools, parents and kids seeking these "prestigious" teachers all have their heads up their arses to one degree or another.
2. There are teachers who have attended these schools flitting about Korea.
3. Some work at these schools already, others don't yet know of the current "yuhak" craze that has taken Korea by storm, and are just teaching and doing their thing.
4. If you are so inclined, and you did go to one of these schools, or had high standardized test scores, or can simply convince people that you can teach them how to take tests and have no scruples, you can make an absolute ARSE of money.
Caveat Emptor.
These people are bloody annoying. |
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tzechuk
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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My friend has a MDiv from Harvard's School of Divinity.
They are around, but they are teaching at universities. |
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coolsage
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: The overcast afternoon of the soul
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Clearly these employers are out of touch with reality (no, not you, RR). Now that the Canadian economy is surging, along with the US, about the only people headed in this general direction will be the true misfits and losers. Forget Ivy League, forget U of T or McGill, employers. Get used to the idea of graduates from the Swan Hills Institute of Technology, abbreviated as S.H.I.T. |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| coolsage wrote: |
| Clearly these employers are out of touch with reality (no, not you, RR). Now that the Canadian economy is surging, along with the US, about the only people headed in this general direction will be the true misfits and losers. Forget Ivy League, forget U of T or McGill, employers. Get used to the idea of graduates from the Swan Hills Institute of Technology, abbreviated as S.H.I.T. |
It's getting off subject, but you know, I actually like it here(minus the fucking yellow sand). And I may, once done with that lively little PhD find a way to come back and stay. No, it won't be at a hakwon, but some of the people who get through the good schools come here for reasons that have nothing to do with getting the highest paying job they can get.
I have worked with people from McGill, Williams, Yale, U Penn, Cornell and Harvard(and of course a myriad of brilliant people who didn't go to nearly as prestigious universities) since being here. Three are still here, all are still teaching and none work for the kinds of places I described. (But we all did at one time or another.).
Sometimes our cynicism and ambition is trumped by our simple affinities. |
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noraleen
Joined: 19 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:18 am Post subject: hmm |
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Not so unrealistic.
My school has 2 Yale graduates working there. Another IVY league graduate recently finished her contract and transfered to another branch. |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| The people I know making the most money here with the most free time to enjoy have average degrees from average places, but their degrees aren't in English! |
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spliff
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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(if my kids have to choose between Brown and Berkeley, you better believe I'll be pushing for Berkeley).
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You're kidding, I presume?
Well....I admit it sucks having shelled out over 100,000$ for my Ed and being under employed, but still, I love teaching and it's what I'm going to do until I start to feel differently. BTW, Penn is Ivy league I should know we play them in football.  |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| spliff wrote: |
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(if my kids have to choose between Brown and Berkeley, you better believe I'll be pushing for Berkeley).
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You're kidding, I presume?
Well....I admit it sucks having shelled out over 100,000$ for my Ed and being under employed, but still, I love teaching and it's what I'm going to do until I start to feel differently. BTW, Penn is Ivy league I should know we play them in football. |
Hehe. No way. I've got a beef with Brown and since you are implying you went there.
Meet me at the flagpole at 3 O'Clock!!!!!  
OK. In an adult world, all those schools are good, but I think some are overrated. And yes, I would chose Berkeley over Brown or Cornell or...that's it. The other Ivies are OK.
And tell me about the money, 50,000 grand for next year: A year which will be split between finishing the initial degree and frantically pursuing funding however I can for the next four years...I am thinking about having FOX News tattooed to my ass and forehead in the hopes they will sponsor me on through.. |
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Hopefully there will be more and more people with Ph.D.s and EdD.s coming into Korea to take on the system. The better the name on the piece of paper, the higher your chances of edging out the local competition. Unfortunately, the trend continues to be the hiring of Koreans, many with Ph.D.s from the same institution, to teach classes that should be taught by native speakers.
Again, and unfortunately, the system is so entrenched that even Ph.D. holders are relegated to 'visiting' slots, and ushered out after 3 years. How ironic that this takes place in Enlgish departments predominantly. I for one wouldn't be taking advanced Japanese from a non-native speaker, or any other language for that matter. At even the 'best' institutions here, instruction is given and paper are writting in Korean. The French, German, Japanese, and Korean majors I know back in N. American actaully write and are instructed in the target langauge. |
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 5:28 am Post subject: |
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I guess the OPs questions are a) what difference does it really make if somebody has a degree from a 'prestigious' university, and b) what relevance does this have to teaching middle school/high school EFL in Korea?
If so, the simple answers to these are a) for such employers form trounces substance and b) it doesn't make any difference really where your degree is from if it is in fact from an accredited, real university.
The people asking for such qualifications probably have no idea what selection criteria they need to advertise for, and this was all they could think of. As one poster mentioned, they can then sell the parents or students on this (pretty meaningless) qualification. |
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Zulu
Joined: 28 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 02, 2006 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| coolsage wrote: |
| Clearly these employers are out of touch with reality (no, not you, RR). Now that the Canadian economy is surging, along with the US, about the only people headed in this general direction will be the true misfits and losers. |
Not this same old shite again.('') Look mate, whether or not you choose to call all these EFLers losers is up to you, and yes there are excellent teachers and ones who should choose another career. But none of that negates the fact that a lot if not most of the foreigners here graduated from schools ranked higher than most Korean unis. |
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