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laconic2
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Wonderful World of ESL
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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 Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Man.. he may be a genius but whenever he's disagreeing with someone, Chomsky always comes off like such an arrogant, eye-rolling at the kids on the short bus, know-it-all. |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah-- Chomsky, like Rushdie, is one of those writers who I often agree with, but I wish they had more grace and respect for their opponents.
I'm just amazed that Fox would cover a story this academic. "At six tonight! Fire in bikini factory! Mud-wrestling scandal! Post-particle syntactics in starlings! All on Fox!"
Ken:> |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:31 am Post subject: |
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He's not the first extremely intelligent man with very poor interpersonal skills...  |
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Kwangjuchicken
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Location: I was abducted by aliens on my way to Korea and forced to be an EFL teacher on this crazy planet.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| When I was doing my MATESOL at Indiana University, he gave a lecture there. He went on and on for an hour about how "rabbit leg" could also be called "nondetached rabbit part". After an hour of that BS, we left. |
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identity
Joined: 22 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:18 am Post subject: |
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| and i once saw greg maddux give up three runs in an inning. who cares. |
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hermes.trismegistus
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| Satori wrote: |
| He's not the first extremely intelligent man with very poor interpersonal skills... |
Don't you mean "extremely intelligent hypocrite?
Namaste. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| hermes.trismegistus wrote: |
| Satori wrote: |
| He's not the first extremely intelligent man with very poor interpersonal skills... |
Don't you mean "extremely intelligent hypocrite?
Namaste. |
Nothing particularly damning in there about Chomsky. This quote from the article was interesting...
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Like many prosecutors, Schweizer is willing to take the let��s-see-what-sticks approach, in which a) you shape the facts to play to the jury and b) you lump questionable charges together with more rigorous assertions to bolster the overall case in the minds of impressionable readers.
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anyway
Joined: 22 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. Bobolina, interesting to note that the book, published a scant few months ago, is already marked down considerably and it seems they can't give away the used ones...hmmmm...
I would suggest you focus on Chomsky's (and Edwards') commentary on the US government's relationship with the United Nations for better examples and understanding of the word hypocrisy. |
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hermes.trismegistus
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Satori wrote: |
| Nothing particularly damning in there about Chomsky. |
I don't really bother with looking for more "damning" evidence of Chomsky. I've read enough of his books, followed enough of his career, and read enough alternative positions to realize that he just doesn't cut it in the 'sustainable solutions' department. He frequently shows extreme ignorance in several fields in which he presents himself an authority. There was a huge discussion of the failures and misinformation spread by Chomsky over at the "Maybe Logic Academy".
I value him and his work - to a degree - but don't see him as a leader of the integral movement. Like Michael Moore, he has pluses but far too many minuses, and others do the job much better.
| anyway wrote: |
| I would suggest you focus on Chomsky's (and Edwards') commentary on the US government's relationship with the United Nations for better examples and understanding of the word hypocrisy. |
Evil cannot be measured in inches.
What the thinker thinks, the prover proves.
You can find examples of hypocrisy pretty much everywhere. When one presents themself free from hypocrisy, or attempts to refute the claims of hypocrisy, you can pretty much rest assured that it exists in healthy quantities.
All words lie.
"All affirmations are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless in some sense.'' - Sri Syadasti
Namaste.
Last edited by hermes.trismegistus on Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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hermes.trismegistus
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 29, 2006 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| anyway wrote: |
| Mr. Bobolina, interesting to note that the book, published a scant few months ago, is already marked down considerably and it seems they can't give away the used ones...hmmmm... |
Schweizer's book will be released in October '06.
Namaste. |
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anyway
Joined: 22 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 3:08 am Post subject: |
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The paperback will be released in 10/06. The hardback was released in 10/05. A cursory search of amazon will reveal the same. Actually the paperback is discounted more than the hardback, 10 months before release...
I can understand people posting about what they believe. I can understand people posting about others being hypocrites. What I cannot believe is people posting about what they believe, but then posting again, calling themselves a hypocrite.
"All words lie."
Now, I know you are much deeper and more spiritual than I am. So I will admit that right away. But why would you post something that says you believe that what you said is a lie?
"You can find examples of hypocrisy pretty much everywhere. When one presents themself free from hypocrisy, or attempts to refute the claims of hypocrisy, you can pretty much rest assured that it exists in healthy quantities."
Correct me if I am wrong, but if one objects to others being hypocritical, then one would at least imply that one is somehow less hypocritical than than those who they have accused, no? If you could address that without relying on the eloquence and spiritual authority of others, it might be a bit more accessible to those of us less enlightened than you.
"Evil cannot be measured in inches. What the thinker thinks, the prover proves."
Wild guess- from a Bush State of the Union speech?
"All affirmations are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless in some sense.'' - Sri Syadasti
Hard to argue with that one. Are you a motivational speaker by chance? |
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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| hermes.trismegistus wrote: |
All words lie.
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Those as well. |
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Satori
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| hermes.trismegistus wrote: |
I've read enough of his books, followed enough of his career, and read enough alternative positions to realize that he just doesn't cut it in the 'sustainable solutions' department. |
He's an analyst, and not at all required to provide solutions.
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He frequently shows extreme ignorance in several fields in which he presents himself an authority. There was a huge discussion of the failures and misinformation spread by Chomsky over at the "Maybe Logic Academy". |
Huge discussions happen on all kinds of subjects all the time, and prove exactly nothing. Chomsky is under intense scrutiny, his every published word gone over with a fine tooth comb. So regarding the idea that he shows "extreme ignorance" in several fields, I'll pass, unless you'd like to get much more specific.
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and others do the job much better.
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If "the job" is to provide in depth left wing analysis of US foriegn policy, then I find this statement highly unconvincing. |
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hermes.trismegistus
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| anyway wrote: |
| A cursory search of amazon will reveal the same. Actually the paperback is discounted more than the hardback, 10 months before release... |
How much you can buy a used book for hardly factors into the relevance of the content. I once bought a copy of Gershenfeld's When Things Start to Think for $2.25US, including shipping. I wouldn't hold this (Schweizer's) book up as a bastion of insight, because from the reviews of it that I've seen, the content was severely hit-or-miss. However, many of the criticisms against many of the heroes of the left - or, more accurately, those posing on the left - have validity. Moore and Chomsky make easy targets for many of these criticisms.
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| I can understand people posting about what they believe. |
I haven't posted what I believe. I favor model agnosticicism. I believe nothing. Not even that I'm sitting here typing this. A lack of belief does not equal belief any more than a lack of chair equals chair.
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| I can understand people posting about others being hypocrites. What I cannot believe is people posting about what they believe, but then posting again, calling themselves a hypocrite. |
Of course I'm a hypocrite. I speak. I write. I think. I converse.
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| hermes.trismegistus wrote: |
| All words lie. |
Now, I know you are much deeper and more spiritual than I am. So I will admit that right away. But why would you post something that says you believe that what you said is a lie? |
All words lie.
No word accurately represents the thought it represents. The map does not equal the territory. The menu does not equal the meal. Symbols and representations of memes do not equal the memes themselves.
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| hermes.trismegistus wrote: |
| You can find examples of hypocrisy pretty much everywhere. When one presents themself free from hypocrisy, or attempts to refute the claims of hypocrisy, you can pretty much rest assured that it exists in healthy quantities. |
Correct me if I am wrong, but if one objects to others being hypocritical, then one would at least imply that one is somehow less hypocritical than than those who they have accused, no? If you could address that without relying on the eloquence and spiritual authority of others, it might be a bit more accessible to those of us less enlightened than you. |
You may find it helpful to think of it in contrast with a lie. Everyone lies. Those that say they don't lie make the worst liars. One who says they attempt to mitigate their lies appears more honest.
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| hermes.trismegistus wrote: |
| Evil cannot be measured in inches. What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. |
Wild guess- from a Bush State of the Union speech? |
The 'evil' quote comes from Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged. The second postulate comes from cognitive science and general semantics - specifically Korzybski.
| hermes.trismegistus wrote: |
| "All affirmations are true in some sense, false in some sense, meaningless in some sense, true and false in some sense, true and meaningless in some sense, false and meaningless in some sense, and true and false and meaningless in some sense.'' - Sri Syadasti |
Actually, this quote comes from the Principia Discordia, which can be found here.
| demophobe wrote: |
| Those as well. |
Since people have rushed to defend Chomsky - a famous linguist - one might expect some degree of familiarity with semantics and ontology as well. Cognitive science and general semantics show that we would be hard pressed to find a more true statement than, "All words lie." No symbol can ever fully represent an objective experience (whether such an experience may be possible at all would be another topic entirely). Every experience gets processed through a transactional interpretation - a "gloss" in sociological terms.
To reiterate - Chomsky has some valid criticisms. One can find some valid criticisms of Chomsky. Chomsky often doesn't take his criticisms far enough, which opens him to additional criticisms. He seems to think that we can "dismantle the Master's house, using his own tools." This can never occur. The paradigm itself has corruption all the way through its core. It needs to be flushed if we have any hope of achieving sustainable solutions. The integralists, among others, have been saying as much for quite a while now.
Namaste. |
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