Korean Job Discussion Forums

[bigverne]

France�s highest court today convicted far-right leader Jean-Marie Le Pen of inciting racial hatred for telling a newspaper in 2003 that Muslims would one day run France and strike fear into the hearts of the non-Muslim population.

http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=210499830&p=zyx5xx645

Whether or not you agree with his opinion (and on current demographic trends it is a distinct likelihood), should people be fined for stating their personal opinions?

It seems that the European political elite will go to any lengths to stifle debate about the growth of Islam in Europe.

[Bulsajo]

Le Pen?
It figures.
And it's also no suprise you'd be here defending him.
But it's all about the MUSLIMS, right?

Not LePen's thoughts on Blacks (who must all be immigrants stealing jobs since everyone knows the only real Frenchmen are pur laine).
So Big Verne, how do you feel about West Indians in the UK?
Oh, sorry- you stick to bashing Muslims these days cause that's acceptable, n'est pas?

But to answer your question I think there is a valid difference between 'free speech' and 'incitement' and I dare say that the laws of most Western countries agree with me.

The only question here is whether or not such a French law has been fairly applied in this instance.
I can't tell from the short article you posted but you seem to think the answer is 'no'.
I imagine you have no further evidence but that "well, he's talking about MUSLIMS!" is good enough for you.
You didn't need to start a thread to tell us that.
Plus �a change...

[bigverne]

You missed the point completely. I am not defending Le Pen, or the FN, or his stance on Jews, Blacks and America, all of which I disagree agree. I also find his nostalgia for Vichy France distinctly unpleasant. However, I do agree with his comments regarding the growth of Islam in France. If current trends continue, France is shafted, and he should be perfectly free to state his views on the matter.

[Bulsajo]

Did you see the part of the article where it says 'incitement'?
Did you see the part of my thread on same?

[bigverne]

Just because he was found guilty of 'incitement' does not mean that what he actually said should be illegal. He said that "Muslims would one day run France and strike fear into the hearts of the non-Muslim population".

I do not think it should be illegal to say something like that. I believe what he said may well come true. France of course, is a country where an author was taken to court for calling Islam 'stupid', and in Italy Oriana Fallacci was taken to court for 'defaming Islam'. At such a crucial time, when Europe needs to debate the growth of Islam, the powers that be are using using all weapons at their disposal to stifle such debate, and that is a travesty in a supposedly democratic continent.

[Bulsajo]

My point was that it was such a scant article that I question whether there aren't more details that the article left out- for example is that simply a highlight or a summary of what he said, or is that the entirety of what caused him to be charged?
I certainly wouldn't leap to the defence of somebody like LePen- who we both seem to agree is a vile man- without having all the facts...

But yes I understand your point- just because it's LePen doesn't mean he should be charged with [edit: what] others would get away with... but then again because it IS LePen might be the very reason it is incitement.

[ontheway]

Since Freedom of Speech and Press seems to me to be a fundamental form of Liberty, charging and convicting LePen would seem to be a basic violation of individual liberty. In France as in much of the West now, liberty is a fading ideal.

I personally favor free immigration but LePen should be free to make his case. This is especially true because this was political speech by a candidate past and future. We want every candidate to be free to express any nutty (or good) idea he or she believes in. How else can we expose them?

Perhaps France is afraid that "Le Pen is mightier than Le Sword."

[Bulsajo]

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=223

[igotthisguitar]

Clearly only some people are entitled to speech & opinions.

Just so long as what they think, say & do is "correct" ( i.e. state sanctioned )