Korean Job Discussion Forums

Wangja · Joined: 17 May 2004 Location: Seoul, Yongsan

Amazing: Korea's immigration is already about as easy as any country I have ever worked in.

Milwaukiedave · Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Location: Goseong

What Roh needs to do instead is reform the hogwan industry and get the swindlers and criminals out of the business of running them.

In Korea hogwans are a dime a dozen. I doubt opening one is that difficult and most of them will hire almost any foreigner.

In my opinion, the foreign teachers get a bad rap in terms of the problems with the hogwan system in Korea. For once the spinless politicans need to look at the real source of the problem, which is the owners (not all, but a good number of them).

Why wouldn't the parents of Korean children want the best education in terms of the value and quality. Part of the reforms could include changing the hiring standards to ensure that only those who are qualified teach. Would any of us here reject the notion that there are bad teachers that need to be weeded out?

Ok, I'll get off my soapbox. Realistically it will never happen...

jinju · Joined: 22 Jan 2006

What Roh needs to do is step down. Anyay, he doesnt have much time left. Good riddance to the guy, one of the worst presidents this country has ever had, although I dont know if DJ wasnt even worse. Goddamn sunshine crap. Return that Nobel you bought you old fart.

ontheway · Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 6:52 am Post subject:

Milwaukiedave,

Sorry, but you've got it backwards. The hogwan industry is extremely over regulated. Everything from the size of the space and signage, the name, the number of students, prices, hours, days - EVERTHING has a regulation. The bureaucrats actually admit that these regulations hurt the industry and the quality institutions suffer the most. If you don't care about the students or learning, then compliance with the stupid rules is easy.

One of the worst rules for good hogwans is the current E2 visa. It would be much better to just look for a teacher who has permission to teach English anywhere for a period of years. You could interview and choose people, in person. A good teacher could leave a bad school for a better job at any time. The bad schools couldn't hold on to their teachers by virtue of "owning their visa" as the sponsor. This would be great for the good schools and bad for the bad one's. It is government regulation that makes business bad.

Milwaukiedave · Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Location: Goseong

I do agree with you about the E2 visas. Then again, if you did away with it the problem becomes how do you track where the foreigners are in Korea. I guess you could come up with a simple registration system that requires us to goto the local immigration office and still have a ID card.

Part of my gripe is the fact that a lot of (I won't say most) employers won't honor contracts and try to screw foreigners. Why? Honestly it's because they can. Most foreigners won't put up a fight because it's simply easier to walk away after being screwed then try to goto the government for help resolving the matter.

I'm not one of those who backs down. If an employer screws with me, they have it coming. Case in point is the reason I left my job earlier this year after the company tried to get my to sign documents to alter my contract. This wasn't a small hagwon, but a large well known chain.

I goto work everyday and work hard. All I ask is not to be treated like a slave. Maybe the current shortage of teachers will remind the industry that less teacher working in Korea is bad for them. Not only does it make it harder for them to hire teachers, but salaries will go up making it more difficult on them financially.

TheUrbanMyth · Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired

The article says "foreigners" Not ESL teachers which are a VERY small proportion of the foreigners working in Korea. I doubt that Roh is going to pass any legislation which will benefit only a very small proportion of foreigners (teachers) living and working here.

As for the E-2 visa thing it's both good and bad. Bad because it's a hassle to get a new job if your original employer is a jerk

But good, because if it were like Japan's...we'd likely be flooded with foreign teachers and salaries would be dropping like flies.
Hakwon owners would be thinking "Hmm, do I hire this blonde-haired pretty, young female teacher, or this blonde-haired pretty, young female teacher...oh wait this one has blue eyes, I'll hire her for 1.6"

As long as the restrictions remain in place, it will be a teacher's market. Be careful what you wish for, it just might come true.

Tiger Beer · Joined: 07 Feb 2003

Njord · Joined: 12 Jan 2006 Location: South Korea

Milwaukiedave · Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Location: Goseong

Milwaukiedave · Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Location: Goseong

I agree with what your saying Urban Myth about it being a "teachers market" right now.

At the same time, the more people who are dismayed with teaching in Korea because of the conditions the fewer the teachers. This probably helps drive up salaries as well.

Which leads me back to one of the points I was trying to make. Hogwan owners fail to see the cause/effect relationship and understand why there are fewer teachers and higher salaries. There are other factors that play in to the situation as well, such as the economic conditions in Canada and the United States.

Njord · Joined: 12 Jan 2006 Location: South Korea

ontheway · Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 5:36 am Post subject:

The government in Korea already keeps track of everyone in Korea. Every Korean citizen is required to register where he or she lives. This is also a requirement for foreigners who are required to register through immigration. That part doesn't have to change. (Although I think it should, it's just not part of the E2 discussion.)

Allowing teachers to "own" their E2 and change jobs would prevent employers from using the tricks and games they use now. A teacher wouldn't face the dilema of signing on to a new deal or fighting. The teacher could just quit and find a new job. The employer needs the teacher, so he'd have to be reasonable. Good employers would hire away good teachers. Bad schools would lose their good teachers. The good schools could then drive the bad schools out of business.

The teachers could quit without needing release letters. There would still be contracts, but terms would be easier, as employers, who reasonably need 60 days to find a QUALIFIED teacher these days (as opposed to any bum with a shingle) would have the option of hiring away teachers from other schools.

Since good schools need good teachers, pay levels would rise. At the same time, this E2 change would allow schools to fire bad teachers easier. The net result would be a competitive environment that would drive out both bad schools and bad teachers.

Getting rid of other regulations and taxes would further improve the hogwan business. There are many good schools that are unable to expand because of the horrible rules.

Milwaukiedave · Joined: 02 Oct 2004 Location: Goseong

My point was, if there wasn't an E-2 visa that immigration would still have to issue ID cards and make us register our addresses and places of employment. Almost any country these days wants to keep track of the people who are non-citizens working in their country.

Ontheway-I like your explaination. Certainly hogwan owners would be at a severe disadvantage if the E-2 were changed or eliminated. They would have less leverage to threaten or bully teachers. Urban Myth seemed to think it would hurt teachers more then help us. Would more teachers be "flooding" the country or would there simply be a change in the way the administration portion coming to work here change? Would our jobs be less secure?

These are all interesting questions....

chronicpride · Joined: 16 Jan 2003

Some early looks at some of the new policies can be read at this editorial
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/opinion/200605/kt2006052819505654050.htm