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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:31 pm Post subject: Hey any of you engineering types.... is this real? |
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If it is real, why aren't we hearing more about it?
http://www.stanleymeyer.com/
Imagine running your car on water! That's correct, I said water.
Stanley Meyer did exactly that ! He modified his dune buggy to run on water alone using the hydrogen to run his dune buggy.
The goal of this web site is to explain the science behind Stanley Meyer��s water fuel cell. As a group we will study his theory, patents, and related information. The objective will be to replicate the water fuel cell. The completion of our work will be proof to the world of the validity of the water fuel cell. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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I'd be skeptical. Car running on water scams have been around for decades. Right up there with perpetual motion machines. Sadly the whole fuel cell (hydrogen comes from water!) thing might just make those water engine scams more believable.
It's nice to think someone has stumbled on a process to separate hydrogen from oxygen that doesn't involve large amounts of electricity. However, I'd bet my money on that person being the kind of person who can, or at least knows, how to publish his findings in Nature. Not some guy who loves dune buggies. Sure it's possible. Einstein blah blah. That backyard scientist guy in England who made the plastic blah blah. But it's a bit like betting on some random child as being the next Mozart.
Prediction: He'll get a lot of press from the unsophisticated media. He'll get some dentist to claim his science is sound. He'll never let anyone test his claim as it's a trade secret etc. He'll send letters to 18 different Nobel prize winners challenging them to prove him wrong. His letters will go in the trash, as he's an assumed nut. He will claim 18 Nobel prize winners could not refute his arguments. Sucks will pony up large amounts of cash claiming his machine was predicated some place in the Book of Daniel... |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe worth a check who owns the patent, if it's real. Total? ELF? Exxon-mobil?
Just 3 wild guesses ..... |
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inspector gadget
Joined: 11 Apr 2003
Location: jeollanam-do in the boonies
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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alternative sources of fuel for vehicles have been available for many many years. water, hydrogen, solar, elecetric etc.
Truth of the matter is that the only things that are preventing society from eliminating vehicles that use gasoline are the OIL companys, Car companies and POLITICIANS in that order.
Its absoluitley ridiculous but oil companies really do have a huge say in controlling affluent politicians around the world. Car companies don't want the change either cause it will cost big bucks for them to change/renovate plants, technologies etc.
Its a crying shame that we are paying so much for oil when there is really no need technologically speaking anyway.
We should have done away with them in the late 80's early 90's but greed didn't allow it, too bad cause the environment would be much better off if we had |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| inspector gadget wrote: |
alternative sources of fuel for vehicles have been available for many many years. water, hydrogen, solar, elecetric etc.
Truth of the matter is that the only things that are preventing society from eliminating vehicles that use gasoline are the OIL companys, Car companies and POLITICIANS in that order. |
Where does the consumer come in? Cheap oil is cheap oil. People aren't going to switch to solar or ethanol if they crunch the numbers and see no cost benefit. The other problem is if you look at the history of the price of oil, very sharp spikes have been followed by gluts and lows. Your car driver in America may see no end to high oil but people living in the oil patch and Saudi Arabia can only see a good time that won't, in their minds, last.
The upshot is anyone in the last 30 years who has bet on high oil, invested in everything from tar sands to solar, has taken it up the scuffer a couple years later.
So, it's too simple to suggest it's some conspiracy on the part of car companies and politicians to keep these technologies off line. There just hasn't been an economic impetus. Granted there was no economic impetus to put man on the moon or build an atomic bomb or a federal highway system. Business looks at quarterly results. No corporation on earth would have ever just up 'n' ponied the dough to create a federal highway system. This is where we need the government to step in. This is where we need voters to ask the government to step in.
If I was American, I'd be all for an Apollo size mission to create a hydrogen economy. I guess there's no longer the "the price of oil may tank" argument in that one can make the argument "handing $70 or $20 or even $5 a barrel to unstable governments is just plain loopy". |
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Cohiba
Joined: 01 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:26 am Post subject: H20 |
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The engines don't run on water. They run on hydrogen which
is contained in water. Hydrogen is a powerful, clean energy
source. Unfortunately it takes more energy to release the H
from the H20 then the released H contains. So, in effect, you
would have to electrically remove the H from the H20 first.
Where does the electricity come from? It comes from established
energy sources like coal, oil and the atom.
So hydrogen engines exist but to run them you would have to
burn down half the Amazon rain forest to separate out the H.
Rain forests are dirty, smelly places anyway. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:58 am Post subject: |
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Here's a way to run your car for 50 cents a day:
http://www.hymotion.com/
(expensive to install though) |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject: Re: H20 |
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| Cohiba wrote: |
The engines don't run on water. They run on hydrogen which
is contained in water. Hydrogen is a powerful, clean energy
source. Unfortunately it takes more energy to release the H
from the H20 then the released H contains. So, in effect, you
would have to electrically remove the H from the H20 first.
Where does the electricity come from? It comes from established
energy sources like coal, oil and the atom.
So hydrogen engines exist but to run them you would have to
burn down half the Amazon rain forest to separate out the H.
Rain forests are dirty, smelly places anyway. |
Nuclear, geothermal, tidal, wind, etc electrical generation would provide the electricity to create the hydrogen. There are ways of producing energy that you can't scale down to a car engine size. For example, you couldn't power your car directly with a wind farm. However, how can you store this electricity to power cars or homes? Batteries were a way but batteries are heavy and expensive. A wind farm generates power at night that can't be stored and might go unused. But there's no way to cheaply store that electricity with batteries. However, if you can store it as hydrogen or a cleaner burning substance like alcohol, you realize some cost advantage. |
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buster brown
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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The key indicator it's a hoax...
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| The byproduct of the combustion is water vapor. |
Okay, let's do the math. First you separate the hydrogen and oxygen atoms to retrieve the energy. Then they're expelled as re-combined water molecules, a process that would necessitate an energy input. So what's the net result? It looks like you've input more energy than you got out of the process. Additionally, I guess my Thermo I professor and textbook were teaching antiquated "earth-is-flat" theories about needing energy to change liquid water into a vapor.
There's no need for the Mythbusters to take on this one, it's a modern form of alchemy. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.padrak.com/ine/NEN_4_8_3.html
Wow turns out this is an old scam. It's so old the "inventor" is actually dead.
Google on Stanley Meyer and dead.
Yeah turns out I was right at least in that he scammed a bunch of suckers. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Like I said, car running on water scams are dime a dozen and have been around for decades. None that have been subjected to rigorous testing have ever been shown to be honest claims. Frauds to the last. I mean you might want to believe X guy has really come up with a perpetual motion machine or a pyramid scheme that really, really works, if so, pony up your dough. For my part, I'll wait until these claims are, you know, tested.
Anyone that came up with a method to run your car on water would be an instant Nobel prize winner. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
Here's a way to run your car for 50 cents a day:
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And here's a way to run your car for even less: don't drive it.
Anyone who complains about the conspiracy to maintain our dependency on oil, and isn't off the grid, is just blowing smoke. It's market choice folks. Vote with your feet and stop complaining. Alternative energy sources can be more cost effective in the long run. Just do it! |
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hermes.trismegistus
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:42 am Post subject: Re: H20 |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Nuclear, geothermal, tidal, wind, etc electrical generation would provide the electricity to create the hydrogen. There are ways of producing energy that you can't scale down to a car engine size. For example, you couldn't power your car directly with a wind farm. However, how can you store this electricity to power cars or homes? Batteries were a way but batteries are heavy and expensive. A wind farm generates power at night that can't be stored and might go unused. But there's no way to cheaply store that electricity with batteries. However, if you can store it as hydrogen or a cleaner burning substance like alcohol, you realize some cost advantage. |
We've got table-top-sized fusion reactors. We've also had some great results from ZPE research.
Cost advantage depends on systems of fiscal economics, which MNT promises to render obsolete.
Why not get on with it?
Namaste. |
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