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climber159
Joined: 02 Sep 2007
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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 Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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You might say: Who
You might mean: Whom
Why: It all depends. Do you need a subject or an object? A subject (who) is the actor of the sentence: "Who left the roller skates on the sidewalk?" An object (whom) is the acted-upon: "Whom are you calling?" Parents, hit the Mute button when Dora the Explorer shouts, "Who do we ask for help when we don't know which way to go?" |
Or maybe not. Plenty of sources more authoritative than Reader's Digest say using who for an object is fine, especially in spoken English. Whom is often considered overly formal.
As for teaching them to students. Why? These are what I refer to as "natural mistakes" if they're good enough for native speakers, they're good enough for ESL learners. The goal is to make them fluent, not perfect. I often explain these kinds of things in the context "A lot of native speakers don't get this right, so if you get wrong, it's just fine." |
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DeMayonnaise
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Judging from a lot of my friends' facebook posts and even many posts on this site, we need to review "to/two/too" and especially "they're/their/there". Whenever I see those mistakes it bothers me way more than it should. |
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climber159
Joined: 02 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Wow, it seems you took this as a personal affront. Don't think I meant to attack your integrity. I posted it because I've seen many of these mistakes on this forum (as well as plenty of other places) and I made the decision to post here in hopes that people would take it seriously yet light-heartedly. Regarding an ESL lesson, for upper level students it might be interesting as it exposes some tricky nuances of the English language. |
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climber159
Joined: 02 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| DeMayonnaise wrote: |
| Judging from a lot of my friends' facebook posts and even many posts on this site, we need to review "to/two/too" and especially "they're/their/there". Whenever I see those mistakes it bothers me way more than it should. |
These sorts of mistakes should bother you. I wish they would bother more people. |
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crossmr
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Hwayangdong, Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| climber159 wrote: |
| Wow, it seems you took this as a personal affront. Don't think I meant to attack your integrity. I posted it because I've seen many of these mistakes on this forum (as well as plenty of other places) and I made the decision to post here in hopes that people would take it seriously yet light-heartedly. Regarding an ESL lesson, for upper level students it might be interesting as it exposes some tricky nuances of the English language. |
No, not at all. I just wouldn't see the point in developing a lesson on it, especially when it itself has mistakes when it's purporting to correct all of our horrid mistakes.
What would be the goal of the lesson? Other than to say a lot of native speakers get these wrong, so go ahead and do the same and you'll fit right in. |
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RMNC
Joined: 21 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I'm all for this, but it seems like the two/too/to, you're/your, there/their/they're things still haunt us. Nothing bugs me more than seeing people I call friends go "their coming over to my house"
I mean, I just don't get it, their is only used when it's possessive, I've never had trouble with it, why is it so hard for so many other people? Drives me bonkers. |
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climber159
Joined: 02 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
| climber159 wrote: |
| Wow, it seems you took this as a personal affront. Don't think I meant to attack your integrity. I posted it because I've seen many of these mistakes on this forum (as well as plenty of other places) and I made the decision to post here in hopes that people would take it seriously yet light-heartedly. Regarding an ESL lesson, for upper level students it might be interesting as it exposes some tricky nuances of the English language. |
No, not at all. I just wouldn't see the point in developing a lesson on it, especially when it itself has mistakes when it's purporting to correct all of our horrid mistakes.
What would be the goal of the lesson? Other than to say a lot of native speakers get these wrong, so go ahead and do the same and you'll fit right in. |
I just put the idea out there (which is why I started the sentence with "Maybe"). There are plenty of creative minds that could develop a worthwhile lesson from this. It wasn't a charge. |
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nathanrutledge
Joined: 01 May 2008
Location: Marakesh
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| crossmr wrote: |
| Quote: |
You might say: Who
You might mean: Whom
Why: It all depends. Do you need a subject or an object? A subject (who) is the actor of the sentence: "Who left the roller skates on the sidewalk?" An object (whom) is the acted-upon: "Whom are you calling?" Parents, hit the Mute button when Dora the Explorer shouts, "Who do we ask for help when we don't know which way to go?" |
Or maybe not. Plenty of sources more authoritative than Reader's Digest say using who for an object is fine, especially in spoken English. Whom is often considered overly formal.
As for teaching them to students. Why? These are what I refer to as "natural mistakes" if they're good enough for native speakers, they're good enough for ESL learners. The goal is to make them fluent, not perfect. I often explain these kinds of things in the context "A lot of native speakers don't get this right, so if you get wrong, it's just fine." |
Maybe it's a regional thing, but where I live educated people know and differentiate between the two. NOT TRYING TO BE RUDE HERE, but of my friends, the high school graduates and the college graduates, there is a difference in language used, and who/whom would be a big part of that.
Sure, it's not a HUGE thing and in conversation, our students could get by without it, but it's something that the definitely need to know in the upper levels of learning English. I wouldn't hassle my middle school kids about it, but if I were working at the University level, I'd make a point of explaining it. |
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