Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Qinella]

Have you ever had the chance to listen to the tapes and CDs that come along with the TOEFL or TOEIC prep books? I've heard at least six different ones. There's always one guy and one lady, and the way they speak is so freakin awkward and strained. Nobody talks like they do -- not even newscasters! How ridiculous is that? Listening to those stupid tapes makes me laugh. I don't even play them, because it's like teaching college grammar with Dick and Jane books. Instead, I read the texts from the teacher's guides, in a natural-sounding way.

Related to this issue, I'm curious about how others speak to their students. At my previous (and first) job, I started out speaking slowly and making sure to perfectly enunciate everything for my students. Somewhere in the middle of my term there I decided this was unfair to my students. I was basically their only chance to hear English speaking that's both at their knowledge level and fluently spoken, so I changed to a natural speaking speed. When I informed my classes about the change, they all groaned, but they soon got used to it.

When I started at my new position, there were complaints right off the bat about how fast I was speaking. Apparently, the teacher before me slowed everything way down (and played the monkey teacher role to a T), so that's all the kids were able to handle. I explained to the director the way I just explained above, and he conceded my point. I speak to all my students almost like they're my friends or family, minus some slang and certain bad habits like running words together. I do enunciate clearly, but that's the way I speak normally.

Anyway, the classes who complained got used to it quickly, as I suspected they would. Seven weeks in and I've already noticed great improvements in their listening skill, almost across the board. Even with my phonics class (and in the past when I've taught absolute beginners) I speak at a normal speed. I'll slow it down sometimes, if it involves grammar or vocabulary they've just learned and can't quite process on demand, but then I'll go over it again and again until they're used to hearing regular speech.

Is this the way most other teachers approach listening practice? Please mention age ranges when you reply. I teach mostly 5th and 6th graders, with a few middle school classes and one 3rd grade phonics group.

Cheers,
Q.

[Qinella]

Am I the loan gunman on the gassy troll?

[EH]

I agree. The speaking speeds on those tapes/CDs are unrealistic. I used to be one of those voice recording people, and I'm naturally a relatively slow-talking person. I hated it when the PD would say, "Too fast! Slower!" when I was already doing about 2 syllables a minute. It's all about the producers. If the PDs can't understand what the voice actors are saying, then it must be too fast--never mind that very few PDs have anything other than low-beginner English skills. Sometimes I would add just a touch of a Southern drawl or a Downeaster accent (Maine) to my voice so it felt more natural to speak slowly. If you try speaking with the "standard" accent of a TV newscaster it's impossible to sound natural speaking at those speeds.

There are also a lot of unnaturally disconnected words on those recordings (like, "I...like...apples" instead of the more normal, "Ilikeapples"). This is because they sometimes re-record a sentence a few times and they like to cut and paste to connect the bits they like best, so they ask the voice actors to put pauses between words so it's easier to splice and dice.

But what I hated most was when there'd be an error--a really obvious and big one--in the script and the PD would insist on recording it as written, because the tape-script had already been published with the error in it and it was too late to make changes. It always made me feel so guilty to be knowingly teaching the listeners bad English. I chose not to do that anymore.

When I teach English live in a classroom, I prefer to speak at a normal rate within breath groups (phrases/sentences) but increase the pause-length between breath groups (where commas or periods if written). The students need the pauses because they need more time to process the message than native speakers do--what they don't need is unnatural examples of speech within each message. For instance, I might say, "Y'didagreatjob! ......... Everyanswer'sright ....... Nowlet'slookatthis." I also use sentences that are just slightly longer/more complex than those the students can use. This is the same regardless of student age. I use a lot of gestures and body language to supplement the verbal message (more for kiddos, less for ultra-formal business folks). And if possible, I try to always show my full face to the class when I'm talking, instead of turning away or getting half in the shadows from the window. That makes a big difference in how well they understand, regardless of speed. I know that all these things add up to listening crutches the students wouldn't get in the real world, but I figure if I can increase their listening skills in the classroom past a certain threshold then eventually the skills should generalize to less ideal listening conditions. Maybe I'm too optimistic...

-EH

[PRagic]

Ditto on everything EH said. It's not the fault of the voice actors, really. It IS the direction they are being given...speed, dictation...you name it.

Touches on another good point, really. Those tapes are selling points for Koreans. For much the same way that Korean test prep books are designed specifically to please Korean students, adn consistently outsell foreign books, the tapes are designed for Korean consumers. It's true. However non-sensical it may seem to us, there is a specific demand from Korean students prepping for these tests. The majority of students, at least the ones buying books, want strategy and things they can understand, not to improve their actaul proficiency.

[mack the knife]

I don't know about the TOEIC/TOEFL guys, but whoever did the public school CDs (including the kids) should be strung up. Yes, yes, it's not their fault, etc. Whatever. They don't have to listen to their own s**t on a daily goddam basis.

[PRagic]

One reason for this may be that, contrary to what you'd think, some of the biggest publishing companies are the CHEAPEST when it comes to the recording of their material. They'll try to save 10-20K an hour by bringing in people with no experience to do their recordings. The job not only takes longer, but the product is of lesser quality.

[mindmetoo]

Corporate training videos are another amusing source of someone's totally whacked sense of reality.

[Dan The Chainsawman]

The best part I love about the tapes is how my school tries to get me to use them. I know they hate my sock puppets but sheeesh what the heck it gives the kids a laugh.

[Lizara]

I hate the tapes. English Time is okay most of the time except for not leaving spaces between the lines in the dialogue, so I have to constantly start, pause, start, pause, start... then we have SuperKids with its slurred voices, and I won't even get started on Diego and Orana... and then the TOEIC prep books where they speak way too quickly and in weird overly chipper voices that resemble nothing I've heard from anyone in the real world.

I'd much rather have the kids repeat after me; that way I can speak clearly and as slowly or quickly as necessary, and repeat the parts that are causing trouble. That's mostly what ends up happening anyway even if I try to use the tapes first.