Korean Job Discussion Forums

[poet13]

One of my pet projects/goals with students is to teach them how to pronounce the "r" sound. My primary methods are first to get them/teach them to whistle. Once they make that lip circle, I them teach them to "push" the sound from the front of their mouths. I do this with repetition and demonstration. I am also fairly adept at diagrams, so i can draw a cut away profile face showing mouth and tongue position so that it is recognizable. Here's the problem. I have a few students who can't seem to get past the top to bottom "tongue flap" used when making the "L" sound.
I am not a linguist, though I like it with clams. (sorry, humor)
I have never had formal training with speech therapy or anything like that.
Please could someone make some practical suggestions that a layman (umm, me) can use with students?
Thanks.

[Ya-ta Boy]

You can do a google search on 'minimal pairs' for L/R and get a whole list of words that vary only by this sound (lake/rake; rice/lice; clam/cram). Then you can play several short games that seem to help my students learn to first, distinguish the sounds they hear, then to make separate sounds when they speak.

For example, you can play Same or Different:
Say two words: lake...lake. Are they the same or different? Lake...rake.

Then play L or R: say one word. rake. Do you hear 'l' or 'r'?

Then write 10 or 12 minimal pairs on the board in very random order, hand out two flyswatters and shout out one of the words. Let the kids race to the board to swat the word they hear.

Find (or make) yes/no questions using minimal pairs. This is fun. "There is lice/rice in your soup. Are you happy?" (They need to understand that lice = ee in Korean...write neong ee on the board, draw a little picture of a louse and scratch your head. They understand immediately.) If you use this one, always start with 'lice in your soup'...if you start with 'rice' you will get the wrong answer. For some reason none of my kids want rice in their soup.

5 minutes a day of any of these is plenty. Don't beat it to death in any one period. The test comes when you have them begin to lead the activity. If the other kids can tell which sound is being made and YOU can tell, then that kid has a good start at mastering the difference.

[Qinella]

I teach R using a few basic guidelines:

1. First, you must expel this notion that ㄹ= R/L. It's absolutely false, and the ones that have the most trouble with R usually think it's true.

2. Point out that when you say L, your tongue touches the top of your mouth, but with R there's a little bit of room. It helps to explain that the wind passes over your tongue with R, but around the sides for L.

3. I use my hands to demonstrate this part: with L, your tongue curves straight up like a ramp, but with R the sides comes up the most, like a half-pipe. You can put your hands together palm up and point the outer sides upward. If they have problems, I'll tell them to try and touch their upper molars with the sides of their tongues.

4. As you know, the mouth shape.


I've found that no matter what it is I happen to teach (regarding pronunciation), there's always that one student who just can't do it. I just try to be patient with them, repeat the procedure and explanation a few times, praise them lavishly if they almost get it, and if they can't get it move on. It's really just not that big a deal in the long run. They'll get it eventually.

I like your concept of it being similar to whistling. That's a unique idea.

Q.

[stakay]

I teach a lot of little kids, and there's no way I could possibly explain to them, 'now, with a l your tongue touches the top... etc'

What I do, and it works for me, is get them to howl like a wolf - you know - aaaa rooooooooooo!!!! Have some fun with it, giggle, laugh.

Then do the howl, but add the rest of the word after it -
aaaa roooooooooooo eeee d. aaaa roooooooo aaaake.

A nonverbal cue will also help - I curl my two pointer fingers backwards, touching my cheeks far back, near where the tongue curls up inside to make the 'r' sound. The kids automatically copy me with their own fingers against their cheeks - just gives a bit of a feeling for them where the sounds comes from.

Then even much later on when a kid makes a mistake I'll howl at them, then we'll howl together, and they say the word again with a proper 'r'.

Works for me, and it get's us all giggling. What could be better???

[Hanson]

I get my studets to say the 'eeeeeeeeeeeeee' sound, and while they're doing that sound, I have them pull and curl their tongue back in their mouth, without touching the roof. The result is an 'r' sound.

Seems pretty effective in showing them that they CAN make the 'r' sound. But they still revert back to the 'ㄹ' sound soon enough...

[jacl]

Curling the tongue back is the key. Has nothing to do with the lips. It's not too bad to teach. Final R and initial L are ok too. Final L is a pain in the arse. Getting them to do N without the teeth is a pain as well.

I abosolutely despise it when they say "suncream" for "sunsreen". I really get on their backs about that one. I only go so far with the phonics though. But "only so far" with me could mean "a lot" to others.

[Qinella]

I don't curl my tongue back when I say R. I can say R with my tongue curled, but if I say a few words containing the letter, it's uncomfortable to do so.

[jacl]

[Hyeon Een]

[poet13]

so the guy next to me in the pc room is wondering what the hell i'm doing here, making all these silly 'r' 'l' 'm' sounds.

thank you.

ah, jacl. when i make the 'r' sound, it feels as if the tip of my tongue is making a little cup, but it doesnt curl back. its more like a cup and then push.

Quinella... "I've found that no matter what it is I happen to teach (regarding pronunciation), there's always that one student who just can't do it. It's THESE students that I am asking about. I know most of them will eventually get it, but !dammit!, I want it to happen on my watch!

Thanks everyone. More ideas will be great.

[poet13]

close your lips to a pucker like a kiss. while pushing, not forcing, air. gradually relax your lips until there is a pinpoint hole. air should be passing through, but not hard. gradually increase the aperture until you make a sound. If it doesnt work, repeat the mechanic using less or more air pressure.
hope that helps!

[pet lover]

When I need to teach kids how to make a difference between their /r/ and their /l/ sounds, I draw these pictures.



This was my first attempt at drawing on the computer, but I have to admit that it doesn't turn out that much better on the whiteboard or on paper. Once the kids get past their giggles at their teacher's artistic ability and try making the sounds with their tongues as pictured, they have an easy time.

Please note that the teeth should not go THROUGH the tongue as pictured in the "Ll" picture.....my hand slipped with the mouse.

Once they have their tongue between their front teeth at least a little, they'll find it impossible to make an /r/ sound. Oh....that helps more for teaching /l/ than /r/. Sorry.

[jacl]

That's a good one, pet lover. I'm not the best drawer in the word, either, but I draw the same thing as you and it really does help.