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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:48 pm Post subject: America started World War II? |
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I'm reading this essay by one of my students and he argues America started WW II. Apparently America didn't join the UN back in, oh, 1935 and this started WWII. You know by not joining an organization that didn't exist until 1946, it somehow made Hitler launch a European land war...
If I recall, Wilson opposed all the cracked war reparations which caused WWII.
Anyone get the feeling Korean teachers have little to tell Japanese textbook publishers about the importance of historical accuracy? |
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005 Location: South Korea
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Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| oh, 1935 and this started WWII. You know by not joining an organization that didn't exist until 1946, it somehow made Hitler launch a European land war... |
First your students needs to get his facts correct. Was this an in class assignment or out of class?
I believe what he means is because the United States did not join the League of Nations after World War I it caused World War II. This is stretching it a little. If France, Russia, and England had listened to Wilson it may have prevented World War II but to say that the fact that the United States did not join the League of Nations caused World War II is inaccurate. The provisions of the Paris Peace conference would have been the same had the US Congress ratified it or not. About none of your students facts are correct. The League of Nations started in 1919 after the Paris Peace Conference. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Nations if you want some more information).
Wilson was against the reperations which included that German must pay 20 million gold Francs for the damage it had done. German also lost Alsace-Laraine, parts of eastern Prussia (present day Poland) and was not allowed to have a standing army. Hitler used the lost land as a rallying cry to gain support for his cause.
Last edited by JZer on Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dev
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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I read in a Korean book that America and England encouraged Japan to invade Korea and even went so far as to provide financial support.
This wouldn't surprise me as 60 Minutes once reported that America gave Saddam Hussein permission to invade Kuwait by not opposing the proposition when Saddam presented it to America. They basically said "We don't care what you do Saddam." and then after he did it, they started the first Gulf war and labled Saddam a villian. |
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005 Location: South Korea
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Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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Here is one account:
After Woodrow Wilson failed to convince Lloyd George and Georges Clemenceau to support his Fourteen Points, the conference settled on discussing the possibility of a League of Nations. After most points were agreed on, the written document detailing the League was brought back to the U.S. to be approved by Congress. Congress objected only to Article 10, which stated that an attack on any member of the League would be considered an attack on all members, who would be expected to support, if not join in on the attacked country's side. Wilson, disheartened, returned to Paris in March after all the diplomats had reviewed the League outline with their respective governments. Without the approval of Congress, Clemenceau noted Wilson's weak position and furthered the interests of Britain and France, opposed by Wilson. Germany was forced to accept full blame, which the new governmant disliked, and so resigned. Germany was being asked to accept all responsibility, lose all colonies and some home land, and to pay the Allies of World War I 33 billion dollars. Wilson would not sign these treaties, and so the United States signed separate treaties with Germany, approved by Congress.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Peace_Conference%2C_1919 |
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005 Location: South Korea
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Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I read in a Korean book that America and England encouraged Japan to invade Korea and even went so far as to provide financial support. |
What does this have to do with starting World War II? Despite the fact that the U.S. like many other countries has its dark secrets, I have not really heard anyone on either side of the Atlantic claim that the United States started World War II. I have taken history classes on both sides of the Atlantic. My German history professor was making no claims such as these. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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Posted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
Wilson was against the reperations which included that German must pay 20 million gold Francs for the damage it had done. German also lost Alsace-Laraine, parts of eastern Prussia (present day Poland) and was not allowed to have a standing army. Hitler used the lost land as a rallying cry to gain support for his cause. |
If I recall my APJ Taylor, the USA actually lent the Germans every dime to pay their reparations. The USA wasn't just technically opposed, they even bent over backwards to make sure the Germans had help in meeting these cracked demands... |
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Wangja

Joined: 17 May 2004 Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
| Quote: |
| oh, 1935 and this started WWII. You know by not joining an organization that didn't exist until 1946, it somehow made Hitler launch a European land war... |
First your students needs to get his facts correct. Was this an in class assignment or out of class?
I believe what he means is because the United States did not join the League of Nations after World War I it caused World War II. This is stretching it a little. If France, Russia, and England had listened to Wilson it may have prevented World War II but to say that the fact that the United States did not join the League of Nations caused World War II is inaccurate. The provisions of the Paris Peace conference would have been the same had the US Congress ratified it or not. About none of your students facts are correct. The League of Nations started in 1919 after the Paris Peace Conference. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Nations if you want some more information).
Wilson was against the reperations which included that German must pay 20 million gold Francs for the damage it had done. German also lost Alsace-Laraine, parts of eastern Prussia (present day Poland) and was not allowed to have a standing army. Hitler used the lost land as a rallying cry to gain support for his cause. |
Just on the reparations bit: Wilson was right not to seek much in the way of reparations, and Britain was perhaps more inclined to his view than you portray in your post.
But do not forget that this was being discussed not in the comfort of an air conditioned room in 2006 but in France immediately after a war in which the total French casualties suffered were 6.2 million. Yes, 6.2 million of which 1.4 million - 1.4 million - had been killed.
The Britsh lost just under one million dead of some 3 million casualties. 9 million casualties for the French and British. Double that with the Russians and you have 18 million casualties including 4 million dead.
The USA's total casualties were 364,000 including 126,000 fatalities. |
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005 Location: South Korea
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| The USA wasn't just technically opposed, they even bent over backwards to make sure the Germans had help in meeting these cracked demands... |
Actually, I believe that Germany never payed the full 20 million Francs. I would have to look that up to be sure, but that is what I remember. I had German history from 1871 (the year that Germany was founded) until present day when I studied in Germany. My professor taught history to exchange students in Germany. He also was a visiting professor at John Hopkins. |
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itaewonguy

Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 1:32 am Post subject: |
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I heard that coperations in America, GErman, England started the war so they could make billions from the materials sold in the war..
which they did end up making in the end anyway!
people get rich during wars.. sometimes you just wonder if they start them , blame someone else on purpose so they can make BILLIONS!! |
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Pyongshin Sangja

Joined: 20 Apr 2003 Location: I love baby!
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:21 am Post subject: |
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I heard that you're a bunch of idiots better suited to figuring out the simple past tense.
I heard that if you add the price of eggs in China to America's criminal responsibilty for thousands of years of European history you can get it to equal this:
Clearly, the American running dogs bear all responsibility for this. |
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Beej
Joined: 05 Mar 2005 Location: Eungam Loop
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:06 am Post subject: |
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| Pyongshin Sangja wrote: |
I heard that you're a bunch of idiots better suited to figuring out the simple past tense.
I heard that if you add the price of eggs in China to America's criminal responsibilty for thousands of years of European history you can get it to equal this:
Clearly, the American running dogs bear all responsibility for this. |
Didnt you know that America and Americans are responsible for everything that was wrong, is wrong, and will be wrong about this planet. |
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005 Location: South Korea
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| Didnt you know that America and Americans are responsible for everything that was wrong, is wrong, and will be wrong about this planet. |
Since when is it the Americans who are responsible for everything that is wrong. I thought that the French are responsible for everything that is wrong. Plus on this continent, the Japanese are to blame for everything and not the Americans. |
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Satori

Joined: 09 Dec 2005 Location: Above it all
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| It's just so hard to keep track of who's wrong these days! |
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MorgolKing

Joined: 18 May 2006
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:57 am Post subject: |
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| Well when reading textbooks or watching the news you'll quickly find that anyone is subject to be blamed for anything and everything. The subject of the criticism just depends on the source and motivation. |
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The Bobster

Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:27 am Post subject: |
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[quote="JZer"]
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| Since when is it the Americans who are responsible for everything that is wrong. I thought that the French are responsible for everything that is wrong. Plus on this continent, the Japanese are to blame for everything and not the Americans. |
Absolutely true. The French are responsible for WW2 because they did not defend themselves when they needed to, plus they had all that great wine and easy women just sitting around. Who can clame the Germans for not being able to resist an invitation like that? I sure can't.
And the Japanese were not really our enemies in WW2, that's part of the Vast and Barely Discernible Conspiracy that most of us live our lives clouded under. Yeah, we killed a lot of each other's troops on a bunch of small islands in the Pacific, but it was all just an act leading up to the Big Hiroshima Hoax - which never really happened, you know, nor Nagasaki, either. They moved everyone out, set off a lot of bombs and spread plutonium dust all over the place to make it look like that.
It was all part of a deal to scare the Russians into an expensive arms race that we would win - worked, too - and the Japanese High Command was in on it all the way up to the Emperor. We promised to give the Rising Sun Folk our automitive and electronic industry in exchange, and even though it several decades for us pay up, we eventually did.
Korea was offered a similar deal but they instead decided to negotiate for letting someone else pay for their international defense spending for the next half century or more ... yeah, and I know some of you still believe Americans walked on the moon. (They walked on a Hollywood stage set, transplanted to some barren patch in Idaho - heck check out the pictures from back then, half the time the shadows are going the wrong way.)
Of course, don't go looking for this in history books. THEY don't want you to know.
And we all know who THEY are, don't we?
The Illuminati!
Damn straight. |
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