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CoolTeach
Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Location: Back in the USSR
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 Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:40 pm Post subject: No respect for Foreigners |
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byr
Last edited by CoolTeach on Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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otis
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject: Re: No respect for Foreigners |
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| CoolTeach wrote: |
Are there any people here that have experienced complete disrespect????
Some of the students are completely disrespectful towards me. Using bad language and not listening to what I have to say. Running about as if what I say didn't even matter. Using bamal. I think these little pissants don't know how to treat a foreign teacher.
Just because I am a foreign person, does this mean I am not an adult? Shoulden't be respected as others are??? What ever I do to punish these little brats, they think is funny. I lose my voice in this class in 10 minutes.
Is there a good way to set boundaries for these punks? I can't explain anything to them because they can't speak very much English? |
I taught highschool in America for five years. Trust me. You don't have it that bad. |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Foreigners Experience Difficulties in Living in Korea
An official in the International Cooperation Division of Seoul City admitted, "The same complaints regarding visas, transportation, education, and environment are raised every year without being solved, due to the lack of cooperation from government agencies involved and their passive attitudes."
by Jae-Dong Yu and Soo-Jung Shin, Donga.com (July 4, 2004)
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2004070522448
Giving foreigners here a hard time
While I have learned to read hangeul and enjoy practising it every time I take the bus, it is the feelings of anti-Americanism that impede my average workday. For instance, I have been turned away by galbi restaurant owners at the door. "No miguk (America)!" they say.
Another time, at one of Korea's bigger department store chains, I was refused the right to purchase an electronics item. Again, "No miguk!" was the reason. When I asked, in my broken Korean, to speak to the manager, I was laughed at by the young university-aged service clerk.
Aside from these issues, there's the one prevailing issue that no foreigner in Korea enjoys. Being gawked at. Everywhere I go I am stared at in shock as if I have green horns growing out of my head.
[LETTERS TO THE EDITOR] by Nathan Drescher, Korea Herald (October 13, 2004)
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2004/10/13/200410130012.asp
Foreigners Excluded From Korean Sites
By Kim Tae-gyu, Korea Times (June 20, 2005)
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/tech/200506/kt2005062017334312350.htm
Foreigners Cry Inconvenience in Mobile Phone Service
By Kim Tae-gyu, Tony MacGregor, Korea Times (January 8, 2006)
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/200601/kt2006010817454610220.htm
For Housing Rentals, Foreigners Easy Victims
By Byun Duk-kun, Korea Times (August 28, 2003)
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200308/kt2003082818233111970.htm
Foreign scholars merit equal status
The foreign professor -- colleague or hired hand?
According to the Samsung Group's chairman, Lee Kun-hee, to succeed globally, Korea must forgo the thought that Korea and being Korean is superior, and foreign specialists must be treated with respect.
by John B. Kotch, JoongAng Daily (June 14, 2002)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200206/14/200206142349223599900090109011.html
Most Foreign Firms Find Korea Less Than Friendly
Cho Hyeong-rae, Chosun Ilbo (April 24, 2005)
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200504/200504240010.html
E-1 (Professors)
A. The Object of Visa Issuance
In the case of a national or a public University, a foreigner is not permitted to be a full-time professor.
[Republic of Korea] Ministry of Justice, Immigration Bureau
http://www.moj.go.kr/HP/ENG/eng_03/eng_306030.jsp |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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If you're working in a hogwan the bar has probably already been set by every previous foreigner. And thus the bar is probably 1cm off the floor. The KTs could probably help you change that but they probably don't want to rock the boat.
It's very different at a public school. It took me a while to see what the score was when I worked hogwan, and then I immediately got the hell out. Not all hogwans are like that, but at most whitey is just an entertainer who's supposed to get the children to learn English by magic. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: No respect for Foreigners |
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| CoolTeach wrote: |
Are there any people here that have experienced complete disrespect????
Some of the students are completely disrespectful towards me. Using bad language and not listening to what I have to say. Running about as if what I say didn't even matter. Using bamal. I think these little pissants don't know how to treat a foreign teacher.
Just because I am a foreign person, does this mean I am not an adult? Shoulden't be respected as others are??? What ever I do to punish these little brats, they think is funny. I lose my voice in this class in 10 minutes.
Is there a good way to set boundaries for these punks? I can't explain anything to them because they can't speak very much English? |
Pretty standard feelings, CoolTeach. I think a lot of us have been unnerved a time or two at the audacity of some of these kids. There are some things you can do to assuage this perceived injustice.
1. Realize you are not part of the social hierarchy here. This means there's no need for a child to treat you a certain way. However, it also means you can bypass a lot of socially related customs that we westerners don't enjoy, such as submissiveness.
2. You don't speak Korean. For a lot of children exposed to only one language, the concept of someone not speaking this language equates in their minds as somewhat impossible. They see you as speaking babble, and wonder why you can't just understand them. You must be stupid, then, because you can't speak properly, and you use a funny accent and make weird sounds. If you were fluent in Korean, they'd respect you much more.
3. In the end, it's not really a big deal. If you're a secure, confident adult, it's possible to recognize that the opinions of children, or most anyone for that matter, simply aren't important. Don't get all upset because some kid with bad manners isn't respectful to you. It's futile.
4. The best thing to do is ignore all rude comments. Children who make rude comments want one thing: attention. If you completely ignore these kids, but heap extra attention and praise on the kids who are doing what they should, the bad children will take notice. This can be quite effective. However, be careful how far you go with it. I tried this approach with a really bad class, but I was giving candy to the good students, which actually worsened the situations. The problem kids gave up, and became my rivals. That was a bad outcome, and took a new approach to reverse.
4a. This is that new approach I had to use: when the problem kids would make jokes or be loud, I'd laugh with them. I'd try to appreciate the humor as they saw it, and understand what's funny. However, if it was a rude joke or mocking me or any student in class, I'd shake my head, look down, and be truly disappointed. It's okay to joke and have fun, but it's best not to encourage name-calling and such. But this approach worked well in the end. I eventually won their friendship, and also some respect. I'd let them laugh a bit, but also they'd do their work when I said it was time to get down to business.
5. Something you should consider is instituting a no-Korean policy in the classroom, and try to get the support of your director or principal. This will cut down on the chatter a lot.
6. You should not be trying to punish your students. That's not your job. You should be very friendly and welcoming to the students. Make them feel comfortable by smiling a lot, praising them when they do well, laughing at their jokes instead of getting all pissy, and helping them realize that westerners aren't big, scary monsters. When they speak English, don't correct immediately but rather bring it up later in a general way, to help their confidence. Act really happy when they volunteer to tell you something.
There are plenty of threads about discipline, and the main page at Dave's has an Idea Cookbook full of discipline tips. Just keep in mind that punishment is a bumpy road that leads only to disaster. You need to change your approach entirely.
Q.
Last edited by Qinella on Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
If you're working in a hogwan the bar has probably already been set by every previous foreigner. And thus the bar is probably 1cm off the floor.
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Yep, you're right about that. Look at what this says, though. If we, as westerners, can assume the person before us was likely a jackass, what are we to have the kids expect?
The guy that I replaced left me with a lot to live down to. He would make goofy faces in class, make strange noises, play lots of hangman and connect-the-word games, and generally act like a clown for the kids. When I came and actually did some teaching, I was slammed with complaints about my class being boring. Grr. Damn monkey idiot. So I have had to work doubly hard to reverse what these kids knew about foreign teachers and what to expect from us. |
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Chinaski
Joined: 13 May 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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Cool teach, I'm hearing you! Most of my classes are well behaved, respectful and listen to me, but with one of my classes, it's basically just out of control. I've experienced nothing but disrespect. They just run around, don't listen to me and if they talk to me its either yelling at me in Korean or saying 'no'.
I admit I was a little jerk when I was at school, and would always play up in class, especially with someone who wasn't the regular teacher. But, as rebellious as I thought I was, I never had the balls to be as disrespectful as some Korean students can be (towards foreign teachers anyway).
A couple of days ago, I told the Korean teacher about how bad these students were. I don't know what she said or done, but yesterday when I had the class all the students remained in their seats, were quiet, listened to me and even asked questions.
So, all I can say is tell a Korean teacher about the situation, and hope they can sort it out. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Kids will always be kids? |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Qinella wrote: |
| Yu_Bum_suk wrote: |
If you're working in a hogwan the bar has probably already been set by every previous foreigner. And thus the bar is probably 1cm off the floor.
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Yep, you're right about that. Look at what this says, though. If we, as westerners, can assume the person before us was likely a jackass, what are we to have the kids expect?
The guy that I replaced left me with a lot to live down to. He would make goofy faces in class, make strange noises, play lots of hangman and connect-the-word games, and generally act like a clown for the kids. When I came and actually did some teaching, I was slammed with complaints about my class being boring. Grr. Damn monkey idiot. So I have had to work doubly hard to reverse what these kids knew about foreign teachers and what to expect from us. |
That's what I love about being the first foreigner ever to work at my school. At my old hogwan I faced the same problem. After the new year a bunch of classes got switched around and I got a few new ones. I received a number of comments from students surprised that a foreigner would teach grammar. I guess several of the other FTs never did.
As for the disrespect thing, I'll never forget when a kid in a class I was subbing threw his shoe at me. I don't know what the hell he was thinking, but I made sure that he went home a lot more pissed off than I was. I was given the class a few weeks later; he had disappeared and the other kids were quite a bit different when they knew that no meant no and out meant out. Then I decided to quit and I let the whole class go to pot. 
In one of the class lesson books of one of the worst classes I wrote 'oh how I pity you' to my replacement. |
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dcrayne
Joined: 25 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| find a nice big stick, I used 1/2 a pool cue, a hit your desk as hard as you can. You should have no problems with your students. As well, it's a nice way to relieve some stress. |
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Doogie
Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Location: Hwaseong City
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| dcrayne wrote: |
| find a nice big stick, I used 1/2 a pool cue, a hit your desk as hard as you can. You should have no problems with your students. As well, it's a nice way to relieve some stress. |
This works for me as well. I've got a good, strong stick that I smash on the desk. Believe me, it gets the message accross. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Doogie wrote: |
| dcrayne wrote: |
| find a nice big stick, I used 1/2 a pool cue, a hit your desk as hard as you can. You should have no problems with your students. As well, it's a nice way to relieve some stress. |
This works for me as well. I've got a good, strong stick that I smash on the desk. Believe me, it gets the message accross. |
I used to have one of the plastic hammers that squeak when they hit, and I'd bonk the kids in the head. Problem was, they loved it. |
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manlyboy
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Location: Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| I do one of those fingers-in-the-mouth super loud whistles that can be heard from miles away. Every time I drop one of those babies, they all shut up and look at me agog as if to say "how did he do that". |
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marcus
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe you aren't a hot blonde with large breasts. Kids cannot swear at you if they are drooling on you. |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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From day one you have to toss the perps out of the class for a hallway time-out the moment the bad language comes out of their mouth.
The first couple of weeks with a new class can be a power struggle. They'll get away with as much disrespect towards you as you allow them to. It's as simple as that. |
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