Korean Job Discussion Forums

[tonythetiger]

Hello

Im hoping I can get some good feedback from some foreigners that have been teaching English in Korean schools. Im thinking of going to Korea and doing the same and have 8 years experience in High School in the Uk. Although the packages offered sound good Ive heard some horror stories and want to know if they are the exception rather than rule.

Are Koreans really that rude, cheating and untrustworthy as some of the forums I have checked out suggest. Or is it that most teachers enjoy a good relationship with their schools and have a good social life with time off to relax and enjoy themselves. Whats the living arrangements like..good apartments ?

Also what are the best schools to teach at ? Can I qualify for a University ? Whers a good place to look for better paid jobs ? Anyway Ill buy a beer for anybody that can help me out when I get out there.

Hopefully meet some of you soon

xxx Tone

[thepeel]

The following is my opinion, from my subjective experience in Korea.

1) Yes. Koreans are more rude than you could even imagine.

2) Yes. Koreans have cheated me out of 4,000$ thus far. Every single large financial transaction, and many of the middle range transactions that I have been involved in with a Korean has ended up in me being ripped off. You absolutely cannot trust them. Right now, my landlord is trying to charge me for another months rent (and my school agreeing with them) as they have not found someone else to take my place -- this despite it being totally illegal and not my fault. But, fu$k the foreigner. We lie outside of the Confucian circle of who 'matters'.

3) Yes. Cheating is a way of life. If the road is blocked, drive on the sidewalk. If the test is hard, cheat. If the law is inconvenient, ignore it.

If you want to work in a UNI you must be thin(ish), clean-cut and very presentable. Also, it helps to have a Masters degree. And it will be very hard to get a job from outside the country.

Most "teachers" spend their free time doing one of two things. 1) hiding from Korea via the Internet or Media and 2) drinking their faces off. I'm in group #1 usually and sometimes group 2.

In Korea, more than Western nations (as I understand) the employee-employer or manager-worker relationship is extremely strained. To understand why you will have to get your head around their culture (a psychotic obsession with age/hierarchy/title, a facade of respect for and clear resentment of people who have more money and a facade of a respect for authority). I would characterize my relationship with my current boss as minimally strained, and with my last 2 bosses as being retardedly strained.

I have, however, met some lovely Koreans. The K-girls that my friends date and have married are all really kind and chill. Some my students at my uni have also been really cool. But, from age 39 on, Koreans are, in my opinion, totally intolerable.

And the vast majority of the bathrooms are filthy. Maybe that won't bother you, but it really kills me. How hard is it not to spit/smoke while taking your daily kimchi sh$t?

BTW, this is just MY subjective opinion and many others may disagree with me. I don't wanna be flamed, so, again, This is just MY opinion.

[ChopChaeJoe]

I have found Koreans incredibly friendly, to the point of excess. No such luck with reliability and honesty, and the idea American idea of "personal space" is crazy talk here.

Korean students like to cheat and get each other in trouble. If you take steps to prevent the cheating, and instiute a no-tattletale rule, things are cool.

Korean bosses will try to cheat you. If you stick up for yourself, draw a line that cannot be crossed, they will respect it.

Hanging out (and even drinking) with Koreans is fun and enlightening. They really like to have a good time with companions. It may not be the kind of rabble-rousing that you're usd to, but it blows off steam. Unfortunately, koreans take drinking as a pissing contest and will try to out-drink you. being lightweights, they will endanger themselves. be wary of a drunk Korean, the anti-foreigner seniment is lurking under the surface.

[Bronski]

I've only been here about six weeks, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but I'm having the time of my life. Just make sure you research your potential job carefully before coming. I haven't have any problems based on the so-called "rudeness" that everyone is talking about. Social interaction is a little different here (as it would be in any new culture), but I didn't come with any expectations of how things should be. I've met some wonderful Korean people and most of the other foreign teachers at my school are cool as well. If you're very set in your ways and expect things to be like they are in the UK then you'll be disappointed. My relationship with my school is fine so far. Teaching is fairly easy and I usually enjoy it. I have bad days here like anywhere else, but there's nothing particularly Korean about that.

[anjucat]

Wow, BJWD, that seems like a pretty bleak "subjective experience." I'm not trying to flame you, but i have to disagree with you on several things (based, of course, on MY subjective experience).

First of all, i'd like to point out that any statement that begins "Koreans are..." is complete and utter nonsense -- there is 48 million of 'em, or so...

Next, emphatically, "Koreans are" NOT incredibly rude. Using the rules of politeness from your home country (for example, shoving and personal space), then it may seem that way, but the fact is there are different concepts of rudeness and politeness here. Often, WAY too often, foreigners are regarded as "incredibly rude" for doing things that seem completely innocuous to us. Having said that, i have met many genuinely rude people here, but really, there's a lot of bleeps at home, too.

The statement that to get a university gig you have to be "thin(ish), clean-cut and presentable" is absolutely false (based on observation and experience), although admittedly it does help. Yes, it is more difficult getting a job from outside the country (although 8 years teaching experience should help immensely).

The part about "most" foreigners doing either one or two things is laughable. I fall into neither category, nor do most of my foreign friends. Your lifestyle in Korea, like anywhere else in the world, is what you make of it.

The employer-employee relationship CAN often be strained, especially when said parties are from different countries, but definitely not always. There ARE good employers out there who will treat you with respect, and who themselves are worthy of respect. There are a lot of bleeps, though.

I do emphatically agree that most public washrooms are filthy, but hey, what are ya' gonna' do?

All in all, OP, as i'm sure you can see, many different people have many different experiences here. Message boards such as Dave's are a pretty decent way to get a feel for what you're getting into, and often a good source of practical info and amusing anecdotes, but please don't base any opinions based on them. They display the thoughts and opinions of about 1% of the expat community -- the 1% that chooses to participate in online message boards.

As for me, i think Korea's just groovy. 'Course, i could be wrong...

[thepeel]

Dude, if someone asks, if a Westerner asks, if Koreans are rude they are doing so from the perspective of someone who defines rudeness in Western terms. I think you should have paid a little more attention in sociology class. When I, a Westerner am talking to another Westerner about if or if not someone/people are rude I don't have to define what rude is because we have a common cultural understanding as to what each other means. We share culture. BTW, 'culture' properly defined is a "shared perspective". We do not have a define and qualify/quantify every assertion being made when having a conversation with someone who shares our culture. Unless you do it on Dave's?

Look, about the worker-employer relations. Koreans companies treat their Korean employees like utter crap. Making them stay until the boss "wants" to leave, giving them ZERO vacation and all the while talking to them like dogs. We are treated likely better than a typical Korean employee cause the Koreans know we won't stand for it. BUT, we are still treated, in my opinion, worse than we would be at home (in a typical situation). The typical job here has more garbage that a comparable job at home.

To get a UNI job. If you look like a slob, you are out. I got my job, without a masters, ONLY because the office staff girls thought I was handsome. No other reason. While a few retards slipped thru the cracks at my school, the trend was towards youngish, well kept guys.

And the foreigners here do just sit at home or drink, for the most part. There is very little else to do. It is not a particularly culturally accessible country, and the parts that are are good for a one off experience --tea houses and the like-- and not consistent participation. How many times can you go to a sauna in a week?

Damn, now we gotta go back and forth for ever about this eh? Screw it. This is my last post on the subject.

[essexboy]

mate, just bring a huge box of teabags and things will be ok. I have found 99% of the people really, really great.
The paths are a deathtrap though, they will run you down if you dont grow eyes in the back of your head!
Do it though man, if not just to bolster the numbers of poms here!

Good luck geezer

[pixel8]

Life here is the same everywhere ... its a living and its up to you make it work. Don't expect it to be about big money and easy living. To each their own. Despite all the nagging and complaints, we are still here.







.

[Junior]

[quote="tonythetiger"]Hello

[rocklee]

Come with no expectations and you will be fine.

[Hyeon Een]

[tesseract]

BJWD wrote:

[zappadelta]

I have found most Koreans to be extremely friendly if they want or need something. At my public school, which has about 30-35 teachers (all Korean of course, but me) only 2 I would consider to be genuinely friendly. Meaning, they act the same way whether they need something or not.

[Real Reality]

Students try cheating by cell phones despite ban
by Wohn Dong-hee, JoongAng Daily (November 24, 2005)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200511/23/200511232220153439900090409041.html

Proctors to be armed with metal detectors
JoongAng Daily (March 31, 2006)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200603/30/200603302230294279900090409041.html

Exam Cheating Scam Suggests Corporate Level of Sophistication
by Pak Jung-hyeon, Chosun Ilbo (November 22, 2004)
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200411/200411220011.html

Cheating on Police Exam
by Yong-Kyun Jeong, Donga.com (December 31, 2004)
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2005010178698

Five Hundred Fifty Suspicious Text Messages on College Examination Day Discovered
by Jin-Kyun Kil, Donga.com (November 29, 2004)
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2004113074498

Police uncover Toeic scam, arrest 2 brokers, 17 others
by Chung Kang-hyun, JoongAng Daily (April 06, 2006)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200604/05/200604052211533939900090409041.html

Mom, student, principal in cheating scam
by Sohn Hae-yong, Park Su-ryeon, JoongAng Daily (July 08, 2005)
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200507/07/200507072248502579900090409041.html

Professors Cheat to Maintain SCI Scores
A professor of engineering said it was common for there to be up to ten co-authors on a paper, most of whom have had nothing to do with it.... Last year, Professor Han at "E" University who had failed to be promoted managed to do so after his name was appended to his student's paper.
by Choi Won-seok, Chosun Ilbo (April 25, 2002)
http://www.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200204/200204251020.html

Foreigners Experience Difficulties in Living in Korea
by Jae-Dong Yu and Soo-Jung Shin, Donga.com (July 4, 2004)
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2004070522448

Ex-pats Describe Korea's Culture of Corruption
"Koreans always seem prepared to give out bribes. I was shocked by the culture and attitude of Koreans who feel no guilt despite breaking the law."
by Kim Hong-jin, Chosun Ilbo (December 16, 2004)
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200412/200412160027.html

A Society that Spares Greetings
Seoul National University Sociology professor Han Sang-jin pointed out that the extremely low level of maturity of people's mindsets, which lacks consideration for others, is associated with a social culture in which people do not exchange greetings. Professor Han said that due to the "rushing modernization," referring to a mad dash to accomplish one's goals such as attaining social success, Korean society is seriously lacking in consideration of other people.
by Yi-Young Cho and Soo-Jung Shin, Donga.com (January 7, 2005)
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2005010857368

For Housing Rentals, Foreigners Easy Victims
By Byun Duk-kun, Korea Times (August 28, 2003)
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200308/kt2003082818233111970.htm

Miguk Naemse - Smell of Americans
[Stone Mirror] By David I. Steinberg, Korea Times (March 2, 2003)
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/opinion/200303/kt2003030217021511600.htm

[LETTERS TO THE EDITOR] Giving foreigners here a hard time
by Nathan Drescher
Korea Herald (October 13, 2004)
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2004/10/13/200410130012.asp

[INTERVIEW] Korea lacks institutional efficiency, says WEF official
By Cho Chung-un, Korea Herald (October 27, 2005)
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2005/10/28/200510280013.asp

Korea Ranks 105th in Global Labor Flexibility
By Lee Hyo-sik, Korea Times (September 14, 2005)
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/200509/kt2005091417165210440.htm

South Korea Ranks 26th in Business Environment
by Kim Sung-jin, Korea Times (March 31, 2005)
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/biz/200503/kt2005033117474711890.htm

Koreans Eat Too Much Salty Food
By Moon Gwang-lip, Korea Times (August 16, 2005)
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/200508/kt2005081619305210230.htm

[Korea, Up Close & Personal] Driving in Korea? No Thanks
by Jeffrey Miller, Korea Times (November 30, 2004)
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/opinion/200411/kt2004113019105154200.htm

Korea's GDP Ranks World's 10th Largest
By Kim Yon-se, Korea Times (June 8, 2005)
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/biz/200506/kt2005060820553611880.htm

[sonshine20]

I'm afraid, for as many posters are on this board, there will be that many opinions on whether Koreans are rude. And I'm also guessing that Dave's (or the internet in general) is not an accurate sample of the population of foreigners in Korea, so take it all with a barrel of salt.

First, I'd suggest reading everything you can on Korean culture (from books as well as the internet). Also read up on culture shock. Then ask yourself some hard questions like...

Am I extremely flexible?
Am I highly interested in other cultures?
Would I be comfortable living in much poorer conditions than I do currently?
Would I be comfortable going without many of the modern conveniences I have now?
How do I react when someone is rude to me? How do I feel?
How do I react to frustration?
Do I mind working hard or long hours?
Do I accept tasks that seem stupid to me? Or fight them?

Korea is not necessarily any of these things. But considering these types of questions should help you decide if Korea is right for you.