Korean Job Discussion Forums

Real Reality · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul

"Decent jobs" are defined by the International Labor Organization (ILO) as "productive work under conditions of freedom, equity, security and dignity, in which rights are protected and adequate remuneration and social coverage are provided."

"Decent jobs should be regular full-time jobs and usually offer income 20 percent higher than average," says Ha Sang-woo, a researcher with the Korea Employers Federation. Considering that new graduates here can earn W21.8 million (US21,800) a year on average, decent jobs in general are those that pay more than W26 million a year.

Some 200,000 Koreans studied abroad last year, 52,000 of them in the U.S. and 13,000 in China, the Ministry of Education and Human Resources Development says. In the U.S., there are 47,000 Korean undergraduates and 24,000 postgraduates. Some 90 percent of them come back to Korea after unsuccessful attempts to find jobs overseas.

"After Sept. 11, 2002, U.S. companies have dramatically reduced the number of new foreign recruits," says Shin Gil-jong, who graduated from Virginia State University. "It's almost impossible for Korean students in the U.S. to land a job there." Attending a U.S. university costs W30-70 million a year, and Korean students there have to spend W150-280 million to earn their college degree over four years.
Dearth of 'Decent' Jobs Condemns Graduates to Dole
Chosun Ilbo (June 15, 2006)
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200606/200606150015.html

VanIslander · Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:56 am Post subject: Re: Do you have a "decent job?"

the_beaver · Joined: 15 Jan 2003

Decent job?

I have a fucking great job!

mindmetoo · Joined: 02 Feb 2004

At one time I defined for myself what I felt a "living wage" was in Toronto:

* You can pay rent on a one bedroom apartment and don't need a roommate.

* You can afford to eat out at a sit down restaurant once a week and see a movie.

* You can save at least 10% of your pay check.

* You can afford to fly some place and take a 1 week holiday once every
other year.

* You can afford to buy a new piece of clothing once a month.

* You can afford something better than basic cable but no premium channels like HBO.

purple_buddha · Joined: 18 Apr 2003

Real Reality wrote:

coolsage · Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:13 am Post subject:

'Decent' is a subjective adjective. 'Decent' is not subject to measurement; it's more of an intuitive thing. My uni gig isn't a highly-paid one, but because of a policy of benign neglect, I choose my materials and run my own act. And I get better at this racket because I have the license to do so. That would fit my definition of 'decent'.

GaryCooper · Joined: 10 Jun 2006

I have a decent job that fits the definitions provided in this thread. I work for the absolute best hogwan in my city, according to people in the city. Other people actually envy where I live, and Koreans I meet are sometimes impressed that I work there. The place has been around for decades, hires only MA's (like yours truly, who holds an MA in TESOL), is well organized, well managed, and runs a tight ship. I make 3 mil a month on better months, live on the fourteenth floor of a high-rise, with a three-bedroom 23 pyung apartment all to myself. The colleagues I work with are highly professional, also.

But then again, I looked for a decent job. I never answered ads that said "Great opportunity to travel" or appealed to the non-teacher in me. I once took a pretty good job in Seoul, long before I had the MA, and held it for three years. I took it because they mentioned their laminator in the ad, while the other ads screamed backpacker instead of teacher. A place that brags about its laminator rather than the nearby nightlife is my kinda place. And to get this job, I had to blow about 30 thousand dollars on a two-year period where I worked on an MA and didn't do much else work.

If what you want is a decent job, then be a decent teacher. Go to KOTESOL meetings. Come in on the weekend to work on ideas you have for the class. Be inventive AND pedagogically helpful with your students. Read books on EFL instruction. Learn a thing or two that is positive about Korean culture. Dress appropriately at work. Work on a certificate in TESOL if you're not available to get an MA. Avoid the hogwan dregs. Stay out of the faculty room when you-know-who starts ranting about you-know-what in order to bring everyone down. Oh, and actually teach, rather than make excuses for why you can't teach at the school you're at now.

Of course, you may be the best teacher and still be treated like crap. However, do what you can to do what your personal best is. When there's a good teacher out there, word gets around. You'll get praised by the right people, and attacked by the wrong people. Keep going. The stupid employer may not know your value, but the next employer might.

There are many something-for-nothing foreigners brought here by the many something-for-nothing employers. The employers don't actually ask for quality, and many employees are happy to oblige them. But there are great teachers in Korea, and there are great hogwan owners. Finding them is not difficult. Being the kind of person where good hogwan owners (or university institute directors, principals, etc.) try to find YOU, however, IS difficult.

Good jobs exist out there in Korea, and to get them you have to be a certain kind of person, willing to work like a dog, grow in skill and technique, treat students with respect, and appreciate how lucky you are to be teaching in Korea rather than in your home country. How many of you who worry about how bad you got it -- and believe me, I've had it worse than you in Korea -- realize how good you've got it here, rather than in, say, an American public school? If, in Korea, I had to coach a sport and had to give regular lectures on the evils of drug abuse, would I enjoy teaching here? Probably not.

A decent job? Well, I guess by the ILO definition, that's what I have. But it takes a few indecent jobs to get there. The person who gets the decent job is the person who knows how to make a bad teaching situation more worthwile. Decent jobs are made, not found, anmd it's not necessarily found in the MA or the connections or experience. It's found in the dedication to work and the courage to learn and grow.

SuperHero · Joined: 10 Dec 2003 Location: Superhero Hideout

I can't imagine myself having a better job than I currently do.

poet13 · Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:18 pm Post subject:

GaryCooper...well said.

VanIslander · Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject:

CoolTeach · Joined: 19 Apr 2006 Location: Back in the USSR

PRagic · Joined: 24 Feb 2006

Some good points. We all have to pay our dues here.

Garry C. sounds a bit too altruistic and optimistic for me, though; almost like an institute owner writing up the archetype of a teacher. Full time teaching work at a hakwon for 3.0 million (on better months??), an apartment, and you're professionally happy even though your have your MA? If I were the owner of that place, I'd pay you that much, too, just to keep the other teachers from complaining!

I'd like to see more people like Garry going out on their own by opening up their own study rooms. In a few years, you'd buy that apartment!

Drive on...but try to drive upward, too. I, for one, am tired of seeing foreign teachers taken advantage of here.

willardmusa · Joined: 28 May 2006

GaryCooper · Joined: 10 Jun 2006

Nothing in my post suggests altruism. What I do is 100 percent selfish. I like to come up with new ideas for my class, get stuff done on weekends, etc. Yes, I like to party on weekends, but neither partying alone nor working alone sustains anyone. I very much enjoy my lifestyle.

Nor should having a hogwan job yet having an MA be considered a step down. I am more interested in teaching in this environment than at a university job. I have my own issues with Korean universities, and I have had Korean university experience before. The things I like to do in the classroom lend themselves most to the pre-college student population, broadly in the K-12 age range. Other teachers at my place of work also have MA's, and they, too, know the university score. They'd rather be here than, say, at a typical Korean university. Besides, I've love to teach other teachers at a university, so my current job prepares me with real-life experience.

Given the same choices, you may decide differently. That's cool. Given my own values and what I want to accomplish in life, my goals for the moment are best accomplished by teaching where I currently teach, with the students that I have, etc. If I get tired of where I am, I can always move on. And with the MA, and the work that I've done here, I can demand a few extra favors here and there. Insert maniacal laughter here.

My point was not that we should be altruistic. For what it's worth, I regard sacrifice as immoral; I am an egoist, someone who lives primarily for himself. We should not allow ourselves to get screwed by management, but we should realize that teaching is not exactly your typical 9-to-5 work. To do it right -- i.e., to do it in such a way that is the most personally rewarding to you -- one has to expend extra effort beyond what the schedule may say. Whether this may be true for where you may be, I am not sure, but it is certainly true for the circumstances I am in.

livinginkorea · Joined: 11 Jun 2004 Location: Korea, South of the border

Very good post Gary. Some very good points but I would disagree about working on the weekends, but then that's just me. I am currently working in an elementary school and although I enjoy it very much the management and more specifically the Gepik management is trying to run the good, decent teachers out of the program makes me wonder if the government care about the students education here at all. Sometimes I think working in a hagwon is better especially I have experienced both private and public schools.

I have always said that the students, no matter what age they are, know who the real teacher is. You don't have to prove it to management because if you are doing a good job then they should know. The students or the parents will tell them in good time. Last week a 3rd grade class wrote a letter to the headmaster, telling him what a great and caring teacher I am. It's things like that which make my job worthwhile.

However due to the Gepik program going downhill I am going to teach elsewhere. But I am not worried at all. I have enough experience to know where to look for a job and that is company classes. I have an F2 and instead of me breaking my ass working in a hagwon or public school I am going to take it easy and work part-time while doing my Masters in TEFL. I have taken a step back and seen the bigger picture. I love teaching and want to be more qualified in my field. However I want to work and study at the same time. It will be difficult but the rewards at the end of the day are great.