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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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 Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject: National pride |
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Given all the talk of nationalism lately (and no, I don't necessarily equate nationalism with national pride), I thought this survey might be of interest.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13577802/ |
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billybrobby
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| The U.S. ranked highest overall and in five categories: pride in its democracy, political influence, economy, science and military. |
As far as the last 4 criteria go, America is just objectively #1 by most reasonable standards.
..I think anybody who's been in Korea for more than a few months realizes that Koreans have a huge love-hate relationship with their country. |
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Junior
Joined: 18 Nov 2005
Location: the eye
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 12:48 am Post subject: |
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I hate nationalism. 
Its just another thing that divides people. Makes one person think they're superior because they happened to be born in a random geographical area. |
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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| Junior wrote: |
I hate nationalism.
Its just another thing that divides people. Makes one person think they're superior because they happened to be born in a random geographical area. |
What he said. |
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shoeboy
Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 2:00 am Post subject: |
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Its all about your definition of nationalism. I think its a good thing to be proud of where you come from. Its not a matter of being proud of a geographical location, but pride in the culture you are a part of(which came with growing up there).
And nationalism doesn't make people think they are better than everyone else, just gives them pride in themselves. I connect the feeling that others are below you with the term ultra-nationalism.
But thats by my definition. |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:01 am Post subject: |
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| Actually, I thought the survey was interesting not so much for the results, but for the questions they asked. Instead of a "nationalism bad" vs. "no, nationalism good" debate, I thought people might react more to the kinds of questions asked in the survey and discuss whether or not these questions reveal nationalism or national pride or patriotism or anything at all. |
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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:18 am Post subject: |
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| shoeboy wrote: |
| Its all about your definition of nationalism. I think its a good thing to be proud of where you come from. Its not a matter of being proud of a geographical location, but pride in the culture you are a part of(which came with growing up there). |
what you have described is nationalism and it is evil. Pride of your country? why? Yeah, my ancestor lived here and now I live here and yeah we have X cultural item that makes us unique and special.
yeah whatever.
| shoeboy wrote: |
And nationalism doesn't make people think they are better than everyone else, just gives them pride in themselves. I connect the feeling that others are below you with the term ultra-nationalism.
But thats by my definition. |
Yes nationalism does make people think they are better than everyone else. Ultranationalists are just a particularly rabid version of the garden variety nationalist - they should all be locked up forever. |
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Moldy Rutabaga
Joined: 01 Jul 2003
Location: Ansan, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I hate nationalism.
Its just another thing that divides people. Makes one person think they're superior because they happened to be born in a random geographical area. |
There was a thread earlier arguing about the difference between patriotism and nationalism, but to me it seems that patriotism is being proud of your country and nationalism is believing your country is better than anyone else's.
Perhaps they are only different by degree, but to me patriotism is a decent emotion and nationalism something I wish belonged to the 20th century and not this one. Nothing ever good comes of it but hate and war.
Ken:> |
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Smee
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Korea Lags Behind Japan in National Pride
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South Koreans fell far behind Japanese when it comes to national pride, according to a survey.
South Koreans ranked 31st in the survey of patriotism among 34 countries with Japan�s slot at 18th, released Wednesday by the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago,
Americans came first in the survey and Venezuela ranked a close second. The three Asian countries surveyed ranked low. Taiwan was 29th on the list.
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http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/200606/kt2006062822084210220.htm
Behind Japan . . . and 29 other countries.  |
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ajgeddes
Joined: 28 Apr 2004
Location: Yongsan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Moldy Rutabaga wrote: |
| Quote: |
I hate nationalism.
Its just another thing that divides people. Makes one person think they're superior because they happened to be born in a random geographical area. |
There was a thread earlier arguing about the difference between patriotism and nationalism, but to me it seems that patriotism is being proud of your country and nationalism is believing your country is better than anyone else's.
Perhaps they are only different by degree, but to me patriotism is a decent emotion and nationalism something I wish belonged to the 20th century and not this one. Nothing ever good comes of it but hate and war.
Ken:> |
The simple difference between patriotism and nationalism is that patriorism has to do with your country, nationalism, on the other hand, has nothing to do with country and has to do with your people and ethnicity.
Most people don't know the difference and are always using the wrong term. |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Did you notice this?
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The U.S. ranked highest overall and in five categories: pride in its democracy, political influence, economy, science and military.
VS
Venezuela ranked highest in four categories: sports, arts and literature, history, and fair treatment of all groups in society.
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What an interesting outcome that.
As I see it, the more you feel like you are accepted as part of the norm (ie...the more like everyone else you feel), the more likely you are to feel pride in your country/society/culture. |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperHero wrote: |
| shoeboy wrote: |
| Its all about your definition of nationalism. I think its a good thing to be proud of where you come from. Its not a matter of being proud of a geographical location, but pride in the culture you are a part of(which came with growing up there). |
what you have described is nationalism and it is evil. Pride of your country? why? Yeah, my ancestor lived here and now I live here and yeah we have X cultural item that makes us unique and special.
yeah whatever.
| shoeboy wrote: |
And nationalism doesn't make people think they are better than everyone else, just gives them pride in themselves. I connect the feeling that others are below you with the term ultra-nationalism.
But thats by my definition. |
Yes nationalism does make people think they are better than everyone else. Ultranationalists are just a particularly rabid version of the garden variety nationalist - they should all be locked up forever. |
Why is being proud of your country and culture evil? If all 'nationalists' were locked up forever, what kind of world can you imagine this being? Would there be competitive sports events? Would there be regional and naional food dishes? Would countries have names? |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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What I don't understand about people who seem to very proud of where they're from is the connection between themselves and the achievements of their country.
Did you directly contribute to those achievements? Are you proud of the achievements of others then?
Then there is the perverse pride taken in negative stuff. I've met the kind of Irish guys who travel the world enjoying their reputation of being drinkers and fighters!!! Wow! You are good at drinking too much and being violent!!!! Well done sir!! |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| Did you directly contribute to those achievements? Are you proud of the achievements of others then? |
But don't you feel proud when say, your brother, or a close friend achieves something. Just because you personally didn't do something, doesn't mean that you can't be proud of it. A nation is an extended community of people who share some common bond - language, history, culture, and thus some people feel that they can share the achievements of this larger community.
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| Nothing ever good comes of it but hate and war. |
I think this is a little simplistic. Nationalism can help bring people (of the same country) together during a time of crisis, and can help foster a common purpose between disparate groups. I am not arguing that nationalism is a positive thing, but to say that it is 'evil', or that it only causes war and misery is highly ignorant. |
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SuperHero
Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Location: Superhero Hideout
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| Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| tiger fancini wrote: |
| Why is being proud of your country and culture evil? |
Why is it good? what is there to be proud of with regards to the country you were born in? It's just a matter of luck.
| tiger fancini wrote: |
| If all 'nationalists' were locked up forever, what kind of world can you imagine this being? |
A better world
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| Would there be competitive sports events? |
I don't like sports so could care less
| tiger fancini wrote: |
| Would there be regional and naional food dishes? Would countries have names? |
Yes. Why wouldn't there be different regional or national food dishes that has little to do with nationalism. |
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